Orsogna Project

[sebosebi]

THE BATTLES OF ORSOGNA depicts the struggles of 2nd New Zealand Division to take Orsogna village in Italy, in November/December 1943, in the eastern (Adriatic) front in Italy. Orsogna area was hold by the German 1. FJ Div. (including a little quote of Italian paratroopers), 26. Panzer Div. and 65. Inf. Div.

A part of the last version of the southern map. Here we are experimenting new depictions for Orchards, Woods and Brush.

 

[Justiciar]

If you are asking about your experiment on Orchards, Woods and Brush, I would vote in each case "use standard artwork."

Your gully color (not the pattern / artwork) is a little too light it gets lost in hexes like CC16 the colors are too similar, and under some lighting might even wash out.

Within the village your hex grid number needs to go to white letters and numbers you cannot read the grid easily. Also there are some very annoying shoot throughs since your house art sometimes does not hit the center dot and this allows what is seemingly ahistorical lines of fire for what I imagine is a tightly packed village.

One assume the rule booklet would have a rule about brush-road.

Please see these as constructive observations. The overall feel of the map is good.

 

[Gordon]

Seconded. These eyes have been trained for decades on the standard terrain artwork.

 

[Justiciar]

Also presumably there is a rule about stone and wood colored houses in the same hex.

 

[Yuri0352]

Personally, I prefer the lighter colored gullies as depicted on this map. I never really liked the traditionally dark brown gullies (wadis actually) such as those on board 25. They always appeared to me as muddy ditches which seemed out of place in desert or Mediterranean terrain.
As always, YMMV.

BTW, you had me at 'New Zealand'... I'm going to pre-order this along with the desert module.

 

[RandyT0001]

Using standardized ASL terrain symbology would make the transition by ASL players to this next tactical level of operations easier. I am not sure of the legal ramifications of using them. New players to wargames may be attracted to the 'contemporary' look of many games developed and published within the last decade like the ones in present use.

 

[Gordon]

I'm not a lawyer, but IIRC, the original ASL map art was based on pretty bog-standard map symbols so I doubt that would be an issue. I can see the newer aesthetic, but as a card carrying "old guy" I've got to sit on my porch yelling at the kids to get out of my brush.

 

[sebosebi]

Also presumably there is a rule about stone and wood colored houses in the same hex.

No wooden buildings there, all the buildings are made of stone. It is a draft, work in progress. For example narrow streets in NN19 are not correct, probaby the boulevard shall continue there.

 

[Houlie]

The map is very attractive. However, one issue for me is the use of "shadows" around buildings on what we might call the "4:00" hexside. Makes it more of a hassle to read and interpret LOS.

 

[Justiciar]

No wooden buildings there, all the buildings are made of stone. It is a draft, work in progress. For example narrow streets in NN19 are not correct, probaby the boulevard shall continue there.

That brown color won't fly. That will be deemed wooden. Unless you show a thumb and say buildings like this are all stone, the roof is shown thus to simulate terra-cotta tiles (or whatever it is) and is for aesthetics only. But what you have depicted right now can be easily interpreted as mixed building type for which there is no formal rule in the ASLRB. (Other TPP have done mixed type, and these are explained by rule).

Hollie's point about "shadows" is another legitimate observation.

Yes, your boulevard point is correct. I would suggest that in hexes with debris in the road, the road art should go away and the hex be debris (or is that rubble???).

So you are getting sound feedback here. As new TPP I would take this seriously, should you not care to listen you could imperil your future projects.

 

[Philippe D.]

While I agree that a visually attractive map is a plus (and this one looks nice), I will always favor readability over attractiveness. So my vote goes to, "use more standard symbols".

 

[Michael Dorosh]

No wooden buildings there, all the buildings are made of stone.

Exactly, it's Italy. Anyone who has studied the theatre would find it intuitive that the buildings are all stone, and you can mention in the module's terrain key that this is so.

I like the different colours, I'd keep them.

 

[ASLurker]

Feedback...

Woods/brush: I'm okay with the woods and brush. It's a stylized version of what we're used to.

Orchards (BB8?): Are these out of season orchards or something else? I'm not sure what they are, but I'm not a fan. The 4 orchard tree images (in BB8, etc) are too similar in color to the terrain under them, and the blobs (shadows?) offset from them make it look like a blurry printing/offset error. There needs to be more contrast between the orchard trees and the background terrain, and I would eliminate the largely offset shadows (if that's what they are). Orchards are inherent terrain, so the 4 trees symbol is an abstraction anyway, so putting a shadow on them doesn't make much aesthetic sense. Putting on buildings (etc) makes sense, as they are physical obstructions. If these aren't orchards, the comments about contrast and shadow still apply.

Buildings: At first glance I would be hard pressed to tell you which buildings are stone or wooden or either. If it's an SSR that's fine.

LOS/Shadows: Like them in general, but make sure there's enough contrast between obstruction edge and shadow to be able to interpret LOS. Also, make sure center dots are not right on the edge of a possible LOS obstruction (see hex F14, MM12, LL15, etc).

Hexe S18: Are those orchards too? In season? Overall I'm confused about the orchards graphics on the board.

Colors: What's the thought process for using yellows/browns for open ground elevation differences instead of the normal shades of green? Overall I do like the look of the map, the shadows on physical terrain (buildings, woods, walls, etc) give it a slight stylized 3D look. I've always been a fan of outlining crestlines. Makes elevation changes so much easier to follow.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Colors: What's the thought process for using yellows/browns for open ground elevation differences instead of the normal shades of green?

The fighting at Orsogna took place in the late autumn (Nov-Dec) if I am not mistaken.

 

[ASLurker]

The fighting at Orsogna took place in the late autumn (Nov-Dec) if I am not mistaken.

That would make sense since this is a historical map.

 

[sebosebi]

So you are getting sound feedback here. As new TPP I would take this seriously, should you not care to listen you could imperil your future projects.

Sure, I'm posting here mostly for feedback.

Hexe S18: Are those orchards too? In season? Overall I'm confused about the orchards graphics on the board.

In the area, we had some evergreen trees (and also Olive Grove, but those are in-season Orchards) and several normal out-of-season Orchards. Everything will be declared in pack's SSR.

 

[Scott_Blanton]

Also QQ18 has a rowhouse that is on two different elevations. Can't remember if that is covered in the regular rules.

 

[sebosebi]

Also QQ18 has a rowhouse that is on two different elevations. Can't remember if that is covered in the regular rules.

It has to be worked, sure

 

[von Marwitz]

Hollie's point about "shadows" is another legitimate observation.

Seconded.

von Marwitz

 

[daniel zucker]

Well OK but remember it was YOUR idea, So here goes,

Paved roads are good.
Dirt roads need more brown or something. As they are now they look to "grayish" and don't stand out form Paved roads.
I'm guessing the hexrow T12 to T16 is a railroad? If it is it needs improvements.
Buildings are good. Like the look and structure. PLEASE NO BUILDING SHADOWS !!!!! they just "F"up LOS and interfere with By-Pass when hadges/walls are also present on hexsides.If ll19 is a institute of religious service then, the symbol should be bigger/cleaner.
The elevation lines need to stand out better then they do now; consider bright yellow or white on the darker backgrounds.
In Row "GG" there is not much distinction between the different levels of brown.
The Brush could be thicker of use the standard ASL symbol for brush.
I like the Grain symbol you use but if you go with the standard ASL symbol for brush do the same for Grain.
The edges of the woods need to be sharper, they effect LOS, and when they but up to Bruch its gets fuzzy on where one ends and the other beings.
I like the Guilly's, follow the advice and about the colors inside of the guilly art work.
The Orchards SUCK. If you only change one thing change this.