Multiple Mortars with the Same Observer

[fabrsm]

Hello,
Two 81mm mortars want to use same assigned spotter they have in an adjacent hex (C9.3).
The first of the mortars fires using the spotter at a target 1 in its CA. The target is hit with a critical hit that eliminates it and also maintain the ROF of the Mtr.
Since there are other targets in the spotter's LOS (Target 2), the first mortar would like to try to hit them, how will the second mortar have to behave to fire on this new target as well?
Will the second mortar still have to fire FIRST at the first target and try to keep its ROF or if it cannot maintain his ROF he can do so by using Intensive Fire.?

ps I have already read several posts on this topic but could not quite understand this passage.

Thanks

 

[ScottRomanowski]

That's a very good question. When I've used spotted fire every mortar misses or has no effect, so I never had the opportunity you have. I couldn't find anything about this in the rules (including Chapter K), Klas's compilation, or my compilation. I think from the use of singular ["a target" and "same target" (and "any target" which can mean 'any one target')] in C9.3 and C9.31, you might not be able to switch to a different target if using spotted fire no matter how many mortars you are spotting for, even if the mortar(s) get ROF. Or maybe the person writing the rule forgot to consider ROF. I think Klas may have to answer, or you might have to ask Perry.

 

[Larry]

Can mortar #1 change targets? I don't see a reason why not. Because mortar #2 must fire at the same "target" singular, the spotter cannot spot for mortar #2 at either the first target or the second target. Nor could it change targets after retaining ROF.

I double checked Scott -- just for giggles -- nothing in the RB, PS, or compilation answers the question about changing targets my mortar #1 or whether mortar #2 can fire at either, both, or different target if it gets rate.

 

[fabrsm]

Hi,
while I was waiting for your response, I continued in the following way so that the second mortar could also shoot at target 2 using the spotter (otherwise it would have no LOS to any target):
in order not to lose the use of the spotter, the MTR 2 fired at target 1 (same hex) even if the MMC was no longer present because KIA from the CH of the first MTR.
However, having not maintained his ROF, it fired together with MTR 1 on Target 2 using IF, always using the same Spotter…

 

[Larry]

Multiple mortars fire on the same hex. That's the problem.

 

[FourDeuceMF]

Not that logic has anything to do with the ASLRB, but I would consider that multiple mortars using the same spotter would have to predesignate both mortars as first firing on the same first hex together, then if/when they get any ROF, they move on to another hex, etc. Note that spotting both lowers the ROF by one, and counts as 'using a SW', so that's essentially dead-lining a squad from any other action, not always the best use of resources...

 

[clubby]

Not that logic has anything to do with the ASLRB, but I would consider that multiple mortars using the same spotter would have to predesignate both mortars as first firing on the same first hex together, then if/when they get any ROF, they move on to another hex, etc. Note that spotting both lowers the ROF by one, and counts as 'using a SW', so that's essentially dead-lining a squad from any other action, not always the best use of resources...

You can use a half squad as well. I typically use the worst leader and also use him as a fall back rallying point.

 

[Stewart]

Not that logic has anything to do with the ASLRB, but I would consider that multiple mortars using the same spotter would have to predesignate both mortars as first firing on the same first hex together, then if/when they get any ROF, they move on to another hex, etc. Note that spotting both lowers the ROF by one, and counts as 'using a SW', so that's essentially dead-lining a squad from any other action, not always the best use of resources...

So, with the example given and that BOTH mortars apparently have to fire on the same hex.
The first mortar Blows the hex up...obtains Rate, why wouldn't the 2nd mortar have to "plot" that hex by firing as well?

Otherwise, the Spotter shoots mortar one on hex 1 and mortar 2 (directly AFTER that shot (assume LOSS of rate) at a different hex? Don't really see an issue here...as the mortars are relying on a single spotter which if taken out, would "nullify" 2 mortars in the OB...Benefits and disadvantages, unlike other rule sections.

I THINK the rule is trying to "treat both mortars as ONE", but that can't be the case as when one loses ROF, they both can't fire any longer... as they'd both have to fire at the same hex.


And if it's considered USE of a SW....is that PER mortar?
ie. leaders can't spot for more than a Mortar? is that the inference?
And if that isn't the case, then a SQUAD could fire his HMG directed and SPOT as well.

 

[Stewart]

Wait....adjacent hex vs ADJACENT hex? So the spotter doesn't need LOS to the Mortars....So the spotter can be in a Wadi and the other units in a WADI with NO LOS to them? That's what the rule says but is really odd....since he's "directing" the fire.

 

[fabrsm]

Hi,
If the rule does not prevent it, a Spotter may also direct one or more mortars that are in this condition:
Spotter under the bridge (IN) 12E9 with mortar (IN) 12E8 (with a minimum distance of 2 hexes to fire) to a target in his LOS (IN) hex 12D9.

Wait....adjacent hex vs ADJACENT hex? So the spotter doesn't need LOS to the Mortars....So the spotter can be in a Wadi and the other units in a WADI with NO LOS to them? That's what the rule says but is really odd....since he's "directing" the fire.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

If the rule does not prevent it...

The rule is quite clear on the requirements....it even spells out there's no need for LOS....

C9.3:
"...One Good Order Personnel unit in the same or an adjacent hex to a mortar (regardless of vertical level distance and LOS) ..."

 

[FourDeuceMF]

You can use a half squad as well. I typically use the worst leader and also use him as a fall back rallying point.

I typically use a half squad, and the other half squad wields the mortar...but in this particular case, a HS could not direct the fire of two mortars, as a HS can only use one SW...and each spotted mortar counts as a SW usage.

 

[fabrsm]

Hi,
I don't think this is what the rule means, otherwise how should one regulate it for an SMC?
When a certain number of mortars fire together, for me, it means a single use of SW for the observer. For this reason, however, The rule forces you to fire with all the mortars in the same hex and for an observer it is as if he were using a SW.

I typically use a half squad, and the other half squad wields the mortar...but in this particular case, a HS could not direct the fire of two mortars, as a HS can only use one SW...and each spotted mortar counts as a SW usage.

 

[Stewart]

Everyone has dodged my question.

If the first attack destroys the target, does the other mortar have to attack before rotating to next target?

If one loses ROF, does that transfer to next unit since they can't both fire together? The rule seems to indicate no as they both won't be targeting the same hex.

If the 2nd mortar can continue to fire...why the restriction in the first place?

 

[fabrsm]

Hi,
As I wrote in my continuation of my game, the second mortar MUST still fire on the same target as the first mortar under penalty of losing the use of the observer. Once this is done, in the event of the loss of one of the two ROFs, or both, they will still be able to fire on another target in LOS to the observer. (in this case using the IF)

Everyone has dodged my question.

If the first attack destroys the target, does the other mortar have to attack before rotating to next target?

If one loses ROF, does that transfer to next unit since they can't both fire together? The rule seems to indicate no as they both won't be targeting the same hex.

If the 2nd mortar can continue to fire...why the restriction in the first place?

 

[fabrsm]

…be more precise:
if 2 81mm MTRs use an adjacent MMC as an observer.
The MM also has an HMG and then you could:

1. direct the two mortars (use of a SW); and after:
2. use the FPs of the MMC* or use the HMG* (as the use of a second SW)

* be careful that if you use the FPs of the MMC or HMG first and roll a "double" in my opinion you also lose the use of the Observe mode.

I typically use a half squad, and the other half squad wields the mortar...but in this particular case, a HS could not direct the fire of two mortars, as a HS can only use one SW...and each spotted mortar counts as a SW usage.

 

[clubby]

I typically use a half squad, and the other half squad wields the mortar...but in this particular case, a HS could not direct the fire of two mortars, as a HS can only use one SW...and each spotted mortar counts as a SW usage.

One Good Order Personnel unit and any number of mortar(s) in the same hex firing on the same target.