Mechanized partisans?

[macgregr]

I'm now encountering my fourth fully supplied Soviet partisan mechanized army materializing behind my lines completely undetected until invested. I don't claim to be an expert on this...but I would think partisan units would contain well...partisans. I mean these guys move 12! You can cut the entire front off if you show up in the right spot, overrunning smaller garrisons, and there's not a damn thing the German can do about it beside garrisoning every third hex with at least divisional sized units. Am I the first to mention this?

 

[Veers]

A) I'll bet you have no borders on.
B) This will happen, generally, when a real partisan grabs a hex near enough to a reconstitution/deployment city that all the reinforcements/units-to-be-deployed qued up in that city will reconstitute/deploy.
C) This is a problem because fixed reconstitution doesn't fix the reconstitution to just one hex (Maybe they will change this eventually...PLEASE!!! :laugh, but one hex and its surrounding couple, as well.
D) Mark last suggested that these reconstitution hexes be moved east, which I've done in EA 4.0 (To be released sooner than later).

 

[macgregr]

Yeah! Move 'em east. Make Ivan use those rails. He's supposed to be moving his industry as well. I guess that's addressed in his available rail transport. Though he sure seems to have plenty. Thanks Wyatt.

 

[Mantis]

You need to change your 'angle', but if you take a funny slant when looking at this (and prepare ahead) this can be used to your advantage.

The units are showing up just as Wyatt explains - backed up reinforcements. Yet when they appear, they are generally glowing cherry-red, are out of supply, etc. With borders turned on, it is easy to see where these units appear. It is a pain to be fighting large amounts of Russians in 'controlled' territory - for sure. Yet it generally takes you only a small fraction of the forces it would require to deal with these units were they on the front-proper. They can generally be encircled with little effort, (you go first, remember), and take almost nothing to collapse the pocket once you form it. There is the chance that some of the units are not reconstituting, but appearing for the first time - ie: they are fully rested. This doesn't happen often, and when it does, you just display a little patience and keep him in the pocket til he's red. If he tries to break out (and even succeeds), that's fine too - he is now much closer to red, and you simply re-encircle him.

You collapse the pocket for very little losses - yet the Russian equipment tells a completely different story. They were out of supply, so those thousands and thousands of squads saw none return to Russian stockpiles. Those squads are enough to reconstitute a small army in russian-held territory, and now they aren't available. Lets picture a game where you have 3 large-scale events like this - that can easily be over 10k squads...

No, this isn't perfect, and I don't say that anyone should like it. Simply pointing out that since 'that's the way it is', a German player can still act to turn the lemons into lemonade.

 

[macgregr]

Thank you Mantis. Yes, I'm realizing this.

 

[sapper32]

As mcgregors opponent in this game?? i was suprised to see mech units appear however they have run around a bit cutting rail lines and such but i would much rather they reconstitute on the map edge or somthing i could realy make better use of them on the front line,roll on version 4.0

 

[B-snafu]

........... Simply pointing out that since 'that's the way it is', a German player can still act to turn the lemons into lemonade.....

Had the same thing happen to me in a recent game. As I was attacking a defensive line at Rostov--what seemed to be a whole russian mech army popped out of the marshes near Minsk. Was a little irritated at first that I had to divert a few units from the front but It wound up hurting the Russians more then the Germans in this case.


Just leaving a few of the pro-German partisan units near the pripets will usually detect them and IT only took a few small rear-echlon units to encircle, contain, then eventually destroy. Meanwhile with the Russians units weakening on the Rostov front--my opponent could have put those "never to be seen again" squads to better use at the front line. I'm actually starting to think that this little quirk is a benifit to the axis attacker.

Still--mechanized (eqp) divisions rissing from the mud of the pripets is a little surreal...-------------when your ready for any playtesters of 4.0 veers-count me in.

 

[Veers]

Had the same thing happen to me in a recent game. As I was attacking a defensive line at Rostov--what seemed to be a whole russian mech army popped out of the marshes near Minsk. Was a little irritated at first that I had to divert a few units from the front but It wound up hurting the Russians more then the Germans in this case.


Just leaving a few of the pro-German partisan units near the pripets will usually detect them and IT only took a few small rear-echlon units to encircle, contain, then eventually destroy. Meanwhile with the Russians units weakening on the Rostov front--my opponent could have put those "never to be seen again" squads to better use at the front line. I'm actually starting to think that this little quirk is a benifit to the axis attacker.

Still--mechanized (eqp) divisions rissing from the mud of the pripets is a little surreal...-------------when your ready for any playtesters of 4.0 veers-count me in.

Yeah, I really need to fix up the loose ends and get that out and about...

 

[Mark Stevens]

Is there any TOAW III solution to this problem (not just for EA) - queued units reconstituting en masse because a guerilla's converted a nearby hex? It's bad enough if they were able to actually recapture a reconstitution point, but as these are generally the large cities and should be garrisonned it isn't too likely, but having them pop up in an obscure swamp hex is very annoying .

Is the only answer to move that formation's reconstitution point a lot further east? This sort of defeats the idea that the Axis occupying the western USSR reduces the ability of the Soviets to reconstitute there, as destroyed units of e.g. the Soviet Western Front formation will simply pop up again in Gorky or wherever.

Anyone got any further ideas on this?

Ideally a patch so that a reconstitution point is fixed in one hex only (not anywhere within two or three hexes) would be ideal.



Cheers

 

[Veers]

Is there any TOAW III solution to this problem (not just for EA) - queued units reconstituting en masse because a guerilla's converted a nearby hex? It's bad enough if they were able to actually recapture a reconstitution point, but as these are generally the large cities and should be garrisonned it isn't too likely, but having them pop up in an obscure swamp hex is very annoying .

Is the only answer to move that formation's reconstitution point a lot further east? This sort of defeats the idea that the Axis occupying the western USSR reduces the ability of the Soviets to reconstitute there, as destroyed units of e.g. the Soviet Western Front formation will simply pop up again in Gorky or wherever.

Anyone got any further ideas on this?

Ideally a patch so that a reconstitution point is fixed in one hex only (not anywhere within two or three hexes) would be ideal.



Cheers

Well, Mark, one solution I'm working on is having the reconstitution hexes mvd further east and then, when those former reconstitution hexes are taken having fat, empty units deploy to soak up equipment so we have the Soviets hurt by the losses of these cities, but not have the problems of 'Mechanized Partisans'.

As far as I knwo they have not 'fixed' this 'problem' yet.