Line of Battle (Tactics?)

[cj95]

Okay...

Considering roughtly equal fleets of big ships....at some point after all the initial manuvering and dressing of lines, we come to the point of two big lines of ships roughtly parralel to each other hammering the snot out of each other. (oh what fun it is) :yummy:

My question is, other than occasionaly rotating out injured ships, how much micromanaging of my line do I need to do, or can I sit back and watch the shells fly?

1...Does it help to randomly speed up or slow down my line to throw off enemy gunners?

2. Similarly should I 'zig zag' a bit to throw them off as well...or does this just screw my own gunners up?

3...Is it better to steam at high speed...or maybe better to go slower so that more crew are available as damage control parties?

4....Where are my cruisers in all this? Behind the lines? Between them?(yikes)


5.....Any other neat tactics to use?

 

[Von der Tann]

Generally I find it best to let the line sail as fast as possible, as it tends to make the ships harder to hit. Once the battleships of both sides are locked in combat, there is not much to do except tend to the wounded and watch the situation. Ships that are hit hard and can't keep up should retreat behind the line and cease fire to help repairs if possible, so they can perhaps join in again later. It can also help to shift your fire on wounded targets, pick ships that are badly protected or heavily armed to knock them out.

The cruisers are best sailing somewhere close to the line, in a position where they are not in harms way but can move in quickly if a torpedo run threatens. Good positions are at the head or the tail of the line, where DD attacks can do much damage.

It can help to form several groups of capital ships dependant on their abilities. The German BC, for example, can be used as a "fast wing" of the battle line, and so can the British QE fast dreadnoughts. Their speed can be a valuable tactical asset. The British BC are good for this as well, but as we all know, they are not the most stable fellows and tend to erupt if put under too much stress...

 

[Heinz Fischer]

My 2 cents

(and first things first, which game?)

1...Does it help to randomly speed up or slow down my line to throw off enemy gunners?

Not really. Ships don't exactly go from 0 to 60 in a few seconds and are big targets. Speed changes are slow and the gunners will adjust pretty quickly. So don't count on speed to save you.


2. Similarly should I 'zig zag' a bit to throw them off as well...or does this just screw my own gunners up?

It does both, really, so it's your choice. I would say keeping your line steady has a more substantial effect overall. The better your gunnery, the quicker you'll put the other guy out of battle. I always keep my line on heading for as long as possible.

3...Is it better to steam at high speed...or maybe better to go slower so that more crew are available as damage control parties?

Well, this really depends on the situation. I would definitely advise going slower by a few knots in RJW where the battle is sheer slogging at closer ranges and fighting fires is extremely important. However at the same time you don't want to give your enemy a chance to cross your T and otherwise have initiative in manuevering. So choose wisely. In Jutland, the situation is generally such that, well, "speed is life" - especially for battlecruisers. Ships don't burn very well in WWI, so there's usually no reason to slow down. For the battle line, speed is initiative.

4....Where are my cruisers in all this? Behind the lines? Between them?(yikes)

Well, that depends on what you are doing. Actually "between" probably covers it - a cruiser's first role is as a scout, but once a battle is engaged, the second role comes in: their job is to beat off enemy torpedo attacks, and try to make their own. But as in any attack, surprise is the key element, so you don't want them to be haplessly floundering between two lines.

A good way to use cruisers and destroyers is to try to set them up at the head and tail of your battle line, and maybe slightly behind it. The cruisers at the head keep a watch for opportunities or threats emerging from the enemy battle line, and can leap into the thick of it when needed. The cruisers at the tail watch for stragglers and damaged ships falling out of line.

The rule of thumb with cruisers is that you never want them under steady fire by anything bigger than they are. They will go down very quickly. Cruisers are not your infantry, they're your light cavalry. If they're taking fire from the enemy battle line, the only reason they should be is that they're a) charging in to launch a torpedo attack; or b) getting out fast. However, noone says you shouldn't use your cruisers as a distraction. In fact there's nothing quite like a massed torpedo attack by destroyers and cruisers to break up the enemy line's formation, which could give your own line a powerful advantage - but often at a big cost. It would be VERY unwise to make such a charge right at the start of the battle when the enemy battle line is undamaged, has high manuevering ability and all their teeth intact. A cruiser charging into a solid battle line will end up like the Defense at Jutland. Unless there are other factors (like visibility - if you're able to get into torpedo launching range before the enemy can fire on you), I would save charges by light forces until the enemy battle line has taken a bit of a beating. You will still probably take heavy losses, but you can probably do a lot more damage. And sometimes you don't need to do damage - if a charge causes the enemy to turn or break up their battle line, it may well be worth losing a cruiser or two for in the long run. That's the nature of light forces: they run a high risk of having a short life in fleet battles. This doesn't mean they need to be your suicide squadron, but if you want them to play any role in a fleet battle, you have to accept the guarantee that there will be losses.

5.....Any other neat tactics to use?

Learn when and how to break off, turn away, or reverse direction. And leave yourself room to do it. If your enemy's force is about equal to yours as you said at the start, avoid doing what the AI always likes to do - charge in with the whole force and try to win with raw power. Keep your distance instead, try to manuever your force to take advantage of wind direction and light conditions. Pull back or get out if it's not looking to your advantage, and cover your retreat/regrouping with light forces.

Be wise about the distribution of fire. On the one hand remember that there is a heavy penalty on accuracy if multiple ships shoot at the same target, especially at long range, and conversely - if an enemy ship in the line is left untargeted, that ship will have a much easier time with gunnery. On the other hand, 1-to-1 fire distribution is not really a solution either. What I would recommend doing is at the start of the battle, distributing your fire as evenly as possible, and making sure that you do get every enemy ship under fire at first. That should put them under some stress. Then after some time, try to actually focus your fire and get more than one ship against a single target. Try to pick a ship that already looks like it took a beating, and give it more. Shift away from it as soon as it looks like it's falling out of line. Repeat with others as necessary, but don't leave any enemy ships in line untargeted for very long.

Lastly, my own rule of thumb on ranges to keep for battle lines in normal conditions: in RJW - 6-7km, in Jutland - 16-18km. The gunnery at these ranges will not be the most accurate, but this is the range at which there is still some breathing space for you to make decisions. Once you start getting closer, your risk of making wrong choices which you can't un-do increases dramatically.

***

Like I said, just my own take based on experience.
Good luck!

 

[Tegetthoff]

In my experience the lines are never fully parallel to each other nor are the lead ships exactly opposite each other.

This opens the chances for maneuver. The first one being - obviously - opening and closing the range. As the Germans you will want to close, since you smaller caliber guns inflict more damage at smaller distances. As the British you will want to keep a larger distance with your far-reaching guns.

Sometimes, the chance for a decisive course change opens. Once or twice I have made a radical turn for the end of the enemy line, doing a reverse crossing of the T or crossing of the L if you want. You can then concentrate the fire of your main line on the weakest ships at the end of the enemy line.

 

[HexHead]

Why wouldn't I want to engage in a distant artillery contest as the Germans? Supposedly I'm more accurate and my armor is better. If I close with the RN, where I might be on the short end of what is essentially a 2-1 disadvantage in numbers for large capital vessels, I could get beat up pretty badly. The only hope that I see for the German combined fleet in a general engagement is seamanship and tactics, otherwise the Germans are going to lose a boxing match to the slugger - and quite badly.

 

[Von der Tann]

Correct. Steadiness, patience and skill are advised when you are the underdog, and even if you have superior ships, there is such a thing as bad luck. It also pays not to underestimate your opponent... although I have to admit that too much caution can make for some pretty boring games .

Especially if you don't have ACH options activated, which is advisable in multiplayer games, you can't count on Captain Cordite to finish off the Royal Navy - so it really has to be done by skill and superior tactics. Which can be quite difficult if your opponent is, most distressingly, as clever and competent as you are.

 

[HexHead]

I've got the Standard game and have played the Germans solely, so far, with both Oops! options for the RN ON.

It's taken me a while, several enagagements, just to get a feel for things. First (all remarks are solo play), this is a looong game - even 20x is not much TC (and actually is quite inaccurate, as far as I can tell - it doesn't seem like 20 seconds are going by every second; from playing Silent Hunter, I have a very good idea of what 16x and 32x is), so be prepared to sit through a few hours if you want to try to actually win as the Germans, 'cuz rushing in there ain't gonna do it, as far as I can tell.

From what I can see here on the forums, CLs are ineffective in big slugging contests. I'll keep these remarks in mind as far as using them for anti-torp screens, etc. Other remarks about the lack of auto-anti-DD selection by CLs seem pertinent - wish it were otherwise, but welcome to micromangement, I guess.

In general, micromanagement seems to be the preferred method of play with this game, if you actually want to win. This means time and effort and keeping on top of everything.

Not really a program for casual gamers.

 

[rgreat]

Hehe, try it with both ACH OFF for Germans. You'll feel the difference.

 

[Bullethead]

My question is, other than occasionaly rotating out injured ships, how much micromanaging of my line do I need to do, or can I sit back and watch the shells fly?

1...Does it help to randomly speed up or slow down my line to throw off enemy gunners?

2. Similarly should I 'zig zag' a bit to throw them off as well...or does this just screw my own gunners up?

Gunnery works best if your ships have constant courses and speeds. Every time you change either, it throws you off a little. This of course works both ways, though..

3...Is it better to steam at high speed...or maybe better to go slower so that more crew are available as damage control parties?

When the battle is in the parallel slugfest mode, it's often a good idea to steam about 2 knots less than the top speed of your slowest BBs. This has 2 advantages. First, every ship can lose at least 2 knots of speed without having to leave the line. Second, when a ship does have to leave the line, all those behind her have the speed to close the gap with the ships ahead.

However, getting to and then maintaining the desired range is what it's all about at the bottom line. The enemy might have other ideas, so you might need all the speed you've got to have things turn out as you desire.

The RN has the advantage here, because all their dreadnoughts can make at least 21 knots, while about 1/2 the Germans' can't exceed 20. This allows the GF to get to the range it wants and then stay there, but makes it very difficult for the Germans to do the same or escape if they don't like the situation. The option of slowing down slightly, as outlined above, is also much more of an RN than an HSF thing.

4....Where are my cruisers in all this? Behind the lines? Between them?

The RN has a big advantage here, too, due to having so many more ACs and CLs than the HSF. This allows the RN to have a very strong defense against torpedo attack and still have plenty of cruisers left for scouting.

Scouting is of critical importance at the start of most daylight battles because you really want to locate the enemy heavies ASAP, while they're still as far away as possible. This lets you know what you're up against so you can run away immediately if you don't like the odds. OTOH, if you want to fight, the further away you spot the enemy heavies, the more time and space you have to deploy your heavies into an advantageous position before the shooting starts. Scouting is also important during battles to spot any enemy reinforcements before they can take you by surprise. In both cases, you need to keep the enemy from gaining similar knowledge about you, so your scouts need to be able to beat up the enemy scouts, which almost certainly will be the 1st thing they meet.

This is where the RN's cruiser superiority really comes to the fore. They do their actual recon work with CLs, which are fast enough to stay out of range of the German heavies (provided they can see far enough). Plus, the RN can send a whole CL squadron where the Germans have to use individual CLs with maybe a few DDs. The RN can also use ACs to support their CLs to tip the scouting battle even more in their favor.

My ACs start out with the CL squadrons on the outer edge of the GF's screen. They don't scout because they can't outrun BCs. Instead, they just crush whatever German scouts make 1st contact, then fall back to either ahead or astern of the GF. From these positions, they anchor my anti-torpedo defense for the rest of the battle.

The CL squadrons dash through the gaps in the German screen created by the ACs and actually locate the German heavies. Those that find them maintain contact but stay out of range if possilble, gradually falling back to the GF. Once there, they also go ahead or astern of the line to defend against torp attacks. The ACs deal with any German CLs that attack, while my CLs and DDs deal with the enemy DDs.

The CL squadrons that don't make contact with the German heavies keep scouting around the flanks of the battle area, to keep me from being surprised by German reinforcements. They also skirmish with whatever German light forces happen to cross their path. which sometimes precludes a German torp attack from every materializing. Often, however, they don't accomplish much in the battle, but I have enough cruisers that I don't miss them, and every once in a while they do save me from nasty surprises .

5.....Any other neat tactics to use?

You might consider decreasing the spacing between your DDs to 300m, at least at night. Also, you often want to use different TF formations at night than in the day.

 

[Hetzer_II]

Ok i already wondered about the influence off light and wind on the battlefield.
While i have a feeling that i get information about the sun directly in the 3d screen... is there any other way to know the exact location off the sun and expecially the direction of wind?

And how great is the influnce of both?

 

[rgreat]

I got the impression that it is better to have wind blowing from enemy to you.
As for sun i think it is better not to have sun behind enemy.

 

[Bullethead]

While i have a feeling that i get information about the sun directly in the 3d screen... is there any other way to know the exact location off the sun and expecially the direction of wind?

During a battle, the weather report button will tell you the speed and direction of the wind. To get the bearing to the sun, however, you need to rotate the view so you're looking at it, then look at the little compass thingy in the lower left corner of the screen to see what direction that is (or see which way your cone of view is pointing in the minimap).

Don't expect to find the sun in the east or west, either. The whole campaign map is at fairly high latitudes, especially the northern part of the map. In the winter, therefore, the sun rises in the SE and sets in the SW, and in the NE and NW in the summer.

And how great is the influnce of both?

The sun only has much of an effect when it's just above or below the horizon. At these times, however, it has a very significant effect. This mostly happens at dawn and dusk; in the middle of the day the sun usually has little if any effect. However, in the northern part of the map, in winter the sun is never very high in the sky even at noon, assuming it gets above horizon at all. In these areas, therefore, the sun can have a strong effect all day.

Smoke's main effect is along the line of sight and is more of a problem the closer you are too it. That's why you don't want your own smoke blowing along your line of sight to the target. However, the game effects of smoke linger over a greater area than the smoke graphics, and in fact build up into a smog as the battle progresses, assuming the ships remain more or less in the same area of the map. Thus, eventually, even if the wind favors you in terms of the visible funnel smoke, smoke effects will still build up and become a problem for you. And note that even if your line is moving along ahead, the ships at the rear of the line still have to see through the smog effect left by those miles ahead at the front of the line. As a result, if you have your own smoke in your eyes, it has a bigger effect on the rear of your line than on the front.

 

[Bullethead]

As for sun i think it is better not to have sun behind enemy.

It depends on the time of day. Let's assume the sun is setting behind your ships as seen by the enemy. At first, you have a big advantage because the sun is in the enemy's eyes and is still high enough to illuminate him quite well for you. Thus, you can shoot as well as ever and he has trouble seeing you.

As the sun gets lower, it gets more and more into the enemy's eyes, making things harder for him. However, from your POV, it's also getting darker in the enemy's direction, which reduces the distance you can see that way. If the enemy is at long range, he might disappear completely or at least be harder to spot. When the sun reaches the horizon, it's at its worst for the enemy, and doesn't do you much good, either, but you can stil perhaps see a little.

Once the sun gets below the horizon, however, the advantage switches. The sun is no longer in the enemy's eyes but is instead backlighting your ships against the afterglow. You, OTOH, are looking out into approaching night and might no longer be able to see the enemy at all. As time passes and the sun gets further below the horizon, the afterglow gets dimmer and the area it covers gets smaller, so the advantage it gives the enemy decreases. Eventually, it goes away entirely, leaving both sides in the dark.

 

[Invincible]

Some good Bullethead posts on line tactics, use of cruisers and the impact of wind, smoke and sun in the last posts.