Gliders with Vehicles

[Mongo5486]

In the Def Fire Phase an undamaged glider with a vehicle is attacked by small arms and the roll on the ift is lower than the number on the star line eliminating the glider. The glider has a cs7. What is the procedure for resolving the affects on vehicles, both armored and unarmored, and any crews and guns?

 

[jrv]

The rules are not very clear, but I believe the procedure is the same as for the LVT4. This is the only thing mentioned in E8.4 that might apply. An unarmored vehicle would be destroyed, while an AFV would be attacked with the same attack that destroyed the glider. Guns would be destroyed.

JR

 

[Mongo5486]

Just to be clear, the vehicle(s) and guns are passengers on the glider. Same answer?

 

[jrv]

Just to be clear, the vehicle(s) and guns are passengers on the glider. Same answer?

I don't see any reason to change. The only thing that I see in the rules and the Q&A covering vehicle/Gun passengers of gliders is E8.4/E8.41. E8.41 discusses damaged gliders. Neither rule really says what happens on destroyed gliders. The mention of U.S. Vehicle Note 51 (LVT4) in E8.4 for unloading suggests that might also be the way that such passengers on eliminated gliders might be resolved. But I am filling in a missing rule as best I can tell, and I can't claim that the rules support this. It could just as easily be true that such passengers are eliminated with the glider prior to AFPh, but use the LVT4 rules during after the AFPh. It could also be true that any such passengers are eliminated at all times with the glider prior to unloading. Using the LVT4 rules is just my best guess as to how the rule would have been written if it had been written. If you need something more certain you are probably going to need to send for a Q&A.

JR

 

[Mongo5486]

Thanks JR. My opponent is drafting a question now.

 

[SteffenK]

Thanks JR. My opponent is drafting a question now.

And I'm that opponent. Carl N. communicated with the scenario designer (ESG82, Pete Mudge) to determine intent, and that's good enough for me.

The ASL rules are certainly less than clear. The LVT4 vehicle notes on Survival would have been helpful, if actually referenced in the glider rules.
(Why the rule reference stopped at the LVT4's portage capacity aspect is beyond me.)

Thanks,
Steffen

 

[jrv]

Perry's response to the question I submitted:

Follow the SURVIVAL procedure in U.S. Vehicle Note 51 (the LVT4).

....Perry
MMP

> Once a glider has landed, in the DFPh & later it is treated as a truck
> with cs 7 for personnel when eliminated. If the eliminated glider has
> guns and/or vehicles as passengers, it is a little less clear what
> happens. If the glider is damaged then E8.41 is used, but there seems to
> be no corresponding rules for eliminated gliders.
>
> What happens to a passenger Gun when a glider is eliminated?
> A) It is eliminated
> B) It survives malfuctioned (as with a damaged glider)
> C) It survives unaffected
> D) Other
>
> What happens to a passenger unarmored vehicle when a glider is eliminated?
> A) It is eliminated (PRC roll for survival using the glider's cs#)
> B) It is eliminated (PRC roll for survival using the vehicle's cs#)
> C) It survives bogged (as with a damaged glider)
> D) It survives unaffected
> E) Other
>
> What happens to a passenger armored vehicle when a glider is eliminated?
> A) It is eliminated (PRC roll for survival using the glider's cs#)
> B) It is eliminated (PRC roll for survival using the vehicle's cs#)
> C) It survives bogged (as with a damaged glider)
> D) It is attacked with an additional +2 TH DRM (or IFT DRM for
> non-ordnance) as well as other DRM applicable to the vehicle (as if on
> an LVT4/American vehicle note 51). If the vehicle survives it is bogged
> but otherwise may leave after unbogging and unloading per E8.4.
> If this is the correct option, is the vehicle automatically CE,
> automatically BU or must the player designate its status when it is a
> passenger for collateral attacks?
> E) It survives unaffected
> F) Other
>
> If any of the above answers have surviving passengers, how are the
> passengers attacked after the glider is eliminated?
> A) The eliminated glider can be attacked as if not eliminated, and
> the passenger is affected in the same way
> B) The surviving passenger can be attacked as if not a passenger and
> affected normally
> C) Other
>
> JR

The answers are, based on an LVT4:
A Gun is eliminated
An unarmored vehicle is eliminated. Surviving PRC roll for survival using the glider's cs#.
An armored vehicle is attacked with a +2 DRM. If it survives the AFV is Bogged inside the glider. If the AFV does not survive (and does not blaze), PRC survive or not based on the AFV's CS#. The LVT rules do not discuss PRC automatically having CE/BU status, so this must be something that the player has to designate.
The last question, regarding surviving PRC, is n/a because any survivors are put on foot in the hex, i.e. outside the glider.

JR