Gliders and Wire

[KenYoung]

What happens when a glider lands in a wire hex.

The rules and Q&A that I found on the subject are ...

E8.232 & E9.42 A glider/parachute always lands beneath any Wire counter in its hex. [p.E2690 ;An96; Mw]

and

E8.4 AFPh/CCPh: During the ATTACKER's AFPh, the contents of a glider [EXC: vehicle/Gun (and its PRC/manning Infantry)] are placed onboard in the glider's hex for the first time, after resolving the consequences of all Damage results (8.41). Prior to this they were considered "broken" for LOS purposes. At this point the Passengers assume their own morale, FP, and leadership characteristics for the first time, are no longer subject to losses caused by Damage/elimination of the glider, and may possibly advance out of the hex. Such units can fire in that AFPh (but not as Opportunity Fire). Any vehicle/Gun (and its PRC/manning Infantry) aboard can be removed from the glider (into the same hex) only in a subsequent MPh as per the unloading rules in the "Vehicle" and "Gun" sections of U.S. Vehicle Note 51 (LVT4). In CC, a glider is treated as an Immobile, unarmed truck (8.3).

and

B26.4 There is no additional cost for Infantry to enter a Wire Location beyond the normal COT of that Location. However, when entering a Wire Location (regardless of phase), they are placed on top of the Wire counter (even if disembarking from a vehicle) and must remain there until they expend sufficient additional MF to move beneath the Wire [EXC: Units returned to a Wire Location after attempted entry of a concealed enemy's Location; A12.15]. Infantry may move/rout beneath a Wire counter only during their MPh/RtPh (including the same MPh/RtPh they moved on top of it if able to do so), even if they remain in the same Location and only move/rout (Low Crawl) beneath the Wire counter.

Question #1

Are the contents of the glider placed above or below the wire?


The closest Q&A I found was a Perry Sez Ver. 32

B26.4
An Infantry unit is on top of a Wire counter. There is a pillbox in the same hex. If the Infantry moves below the Wire and then into the pillbox, and later leaves the pillbox, is it placed on top of the Wire counter again?
A. Yes. {2}


Question #2

E8.4 AFPh/CCPh:...In CC, a glider is treated as an Immobile, unarmed truck (8.3).

and

A11.31 vs VEHICLE: All CC attacks taking place in a Location containing a vehicle (even if abandoned) must be declared sequentially (even if the vehicle neither attacks or is attacked).

Am I correct, that any CC in the hex is sequentially?

 

[A_T_Great]

1: I don't think they are placed above the wire. They are not moving or disembarking, they simply are placed outside in the AFPh. Since the glider is under the wire, they should be too.
2: Yes it is sequential, unless the glider is destroyed, in which case it is replaced with an truck wreck.

 

[KenYoung]

1: I don't think they are placed above the wire. They are not moving or disembarking, they simply are placed outside in the AFPh. Since the glider is under the wire, they should be too.

The problem I see with your assessment of this of this question. Is that someone could use the same argument to say that a crew passing a CS DR in a minefield is not attacked because "They are not moving or disembarking, they simply are placed onboard"

Let us say that the wire hex was instead a 6 FP minefield. Would they be attacked when they are placed on board?

If not where is logic that they avoid an attack. But next Mph the jeep and ATG disembarking from the same glider are attacked?

 

[Carln0130]

The problem I see with your assessment of this of this question. Is that someone could use the same argument to say that a crew passing a CS DR in a minefield is not attacked because "They are not moving or disembarking, they simply are placed onboard"

Let us say that the wire hex was instead a 6 FP minefield. Would they be attacked when they are placed on board?

If not where is logic that they avoid an attack. But next Mph the jeep and ATG disembarking from the same glider are attacked?

This is an official Q&A directly on the wire topic:
E8.232 & E9.42 A glider/parachute always lands beneath any Wire counter in its hex. [p.E2690; An96; Mw]

I agree it is sequential CC.

 

[KenYoung]

Yes, I have seen the Q&A. That's why I added in the original post.

I also added the Perry Sez

Perry Sez Ver. 32
B26.4
An Infantry unit is on top of a Wire counter. There is a pillbox in the same hex. If the Infantry moves below the Wire and then intothe pillbox, and later leaves the pillbox, is it placed on top of the Wire counter again?
A. Yes. {2}

Here a unit moves beneath the wire and enters a pillbox (also beneath the wire). But when it leaves the pillbox. It is no longer beneath the wire but is placed on top of it.
Any infantry that leaves the glider which is beneath the wire (just like the pillbox) it should be placed on top of the wire. Just like it was leaving a pillbox.

I could not find the answer in the rule book and this Perry Sez was as close to my first question that I could find.

Thank you for your reply

 

[PresterJohn]

Is it possible that some of those previous Q&A need "adjustment" to allow a cohesive set of rules for wire and vehicles/gliders?

 

[A_T_Great]

The problem I see with your assessment of this of this question. Is that someone could use the same argument to say that a crew passing a CS DR in a minefield is not attacked because "They are not moving or disembarking, they simply are placed onboard"

Let us say that the wire hex was instead a 6 FP minefield. Would they be attacked when they are placed on board?

If not where is logic that they avoid an attack. But next Mph the jeep and ATG disembarking from the same glider are attacked?

They could try to use this argument for minefields, except the end of B28.43 covers this. PRC are attacked as if they are entering the hex for the first time. since there is no rule specifying this for Wire and gliders, I conclude what I stated above. Now lets assume a glider entered a minefield, it is attacked as if it is a unarmored truck. The passengers having been placed on board during the AFPh are not attacked until they try to exit the hex, because they did not move, advance, or rout into or out of the hex. They also didn't disembark. That being said, this would be a good Q&A.

 

[Carln0130]

Yes, I have seen the Q&A. That's why I added in the original post.

I also added the Perry Sez

Perry Sez Ver. 32
B26.4
An Infantry unit is on top of a Wire counter. There is a pillbox in the same hex. If the Infantry moves below the Wire and then intothe pillbox, and later leaves the pillbox, is it placed on top of the Wire counter again?
A. Yes. {2}

Here a unit moves beneath the wire and enters a pillbox (also beneath the wire). But when it leaves the pillbox. It is no longer beneath the wire but is placed on top of it.
Any infantry that leaves the glider which is beneath the wire (just like the pillbox) it should be placed on top of the wire. Just like it was leaving a pillbox.

I could not find the answer in the rule book and this Perry Sez was as close to my first question that I could find.

Thank you for your reply

It's not a Perry Sez. Note the An96 annotation. That means it was actually official errata in an Annual. Granted some time ago, but the Perry Sez was just echoing the original official errata.

 

[KenYoung]

They could try to use this argument for minefields, except the end of B28.43 covers this. PRC are attacked as if they are entering the hex for the first time.

You're willing to accept the B28.43 rule that PRC are attacked by the minefield.
How is that any different than PRC being placed in the hex for the first time in the AFPh?

thanks for pointing out B28.43. I could not find it.

 

[A_T_Great]

You're willing to accept the B28.43 rule that PRC are attacked by the minefield.
How is that any different than PRC being placed in the hex for the first time in the AFPh?

thanks for pointing out B28.43. I could not find it.

I see it as different because the rules specifically say they are attacked when PRC exit, but the rules do not say they are attacked when placed in the AFPh.

 

[Eagle4ty]

The ASOP place all landed glider contents on board during Step 5.21A, whereas the ASOP says conduct any minefield attacks as they occur during Step 6.21B (a different phase altogether).