Game Enhancements

KEYSTONE07950

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Whatever happened to the possibility of the military version enhancements being made available to the public?

Is this software considered complete as is, or are any updates being planned?

If no updates will be provided, will Col Lunsford and HPS publish a new modern sim?

Thank you.
 

Dr Zaius

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I have a copy of the military version. It does have some definite advantages, but it also has some big disadvantages. Jim told me he was considering doing a release of the military version at some point, but my guess is he probably lost interest because DA has such a miniscule following.

I would have liked to have seen a 'DA 2' geared more toward wargamers, but I doubt it is going to happen now. Can't hurt to try, though. Let Jim Lunsford know how you feel and perhaps he will do something.
 

KEYSTONE07950

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I would welcome a DA2 geared to the wargame market.

I don't think Jim Lunsford participates on this forum. Maybe Mr. R. Hamilton could pose the question to Col Lunsford.
 

KEYSTONE07950

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Does anyone know how to contact Jim Lunsford to ask if we may expect any DA enhancement?

I know the interest in this game has been limited. Perhaps a function of its' official support?
 

KEYSTONE07950

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It appears from the yahoo discussion group that version 2.7 may be available from the HPS page shortly.

If so, very good news.
 

pmaidhof

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It appears from the yahoo discussion group that version 2.7 may be available from the HPS page shortly.

If so, very good news.
I left that group some time ago due to inactivity. What was the date of the message that indicated v2.7?

Thanks
 

pmaidhof

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Well, actually am still a member. Guess I forgot due to inactivity. :)

Glad to see (Col) Jim L still participating.
 

thekossack

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I have been playing scenarios with 2.7, and the enhancements are great! AHs now fire at targets at movement nodes, or they can be "linked" to NAIs and will attack anytime an enemy appears near it.

Air support now has a full on planning menu (time on target, interdiction or CAS, etc).

UAVs now have "orbit" commands which light up movement nodes, and only there do they search for enemies.

Supply is now manual only or off.

Some other enhancements that are present but not integrated into the scenarios;
Blocking terrain (will block ADA versus helis?)
Counterfire Radar units (when using this option, these radar units must be pointing in the direction of the offending artillery AND be within detection range in order for counterfire to qualify. That is in addition to all the other requirments).
Event editor for both sides.
 

JWW

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There is a more detailed explanation at the yahoo groups decisive action forum. This is a great thing. I haven't tried the game with the patch yet, but I have read the updated rules. If you do the patch, the help section is also updated to explain all the changes in 2.7. So be sure to read that. I think this certainly appears to add to the realism, though I'll have to give it a try. And it certainly makes it a little more complicated to play, though I have no problem with that at all. I think the game still has a lot of promise, and it is a shame imho that more hasn't been done with it. As an old Army guy, playing DA takes me back to some of the group exercises we did at Leavenworth. I've kept in on my hard drive all this time and occasionally gone back to it to play a scenario or two. Now I'll have to give it another drive.
 

Dr Zaius

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It sounds like this patch brings the civilian version of DA up to the same specs as the military version. Can anyone verify that?

Supply is the one big issue that most civilian wargamers are going to have problems with. Doing your own manual supply is no small chore in larger scenarios, however, it does give the player more control. If I remember correctly, this change was implemented for the schoolhouse so that logisticians could participate in battles and learn as well. This is a prime example of where being a good training tool for the military does not necessarily make for a good wargame. There are probably few wargamers that are going to want to invest the time and energy to plan an execute their own supply convoys.

All that said, a group of really diehard players could run some seriously realistic battles with this version, or perhaps even a tournament.
 

KEYSTONE07950

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Now that we have 2.7, are there any scenerios from the military version us civilians can play with?
 

JWW

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I just quickly played through the first few turns of the Blackhorse One scenario as Blue, just leaving my units in place and clicking turns to look at things while my cav got annihilated. I like the new air allocation menu. That seems more realistic but not any harder to do. Just more precise. You can give you air strikes to friendly units as CAS or do interdiction which is like the old way to allocate strikes. I'm assuming that when you dedicate a CAS strike that the AI allocates it to a unit attacking your friendly unit. That is how it seemed to work. I ran a couple of attack helicopter strikes and like the changes there, too.

I took a look at the logistics menu and that is much more complicated. It would clearly take some time, depending on the size of the scenario, but is definitely realistic. Logistics is so critical in modern warfare. For the moment though I just turned it off, and it seems to just keep logistics at 100% for each unit. So someone who didn't want to use the detailed log menu could just do that.

I also noted that the options menu is gone. I don't think you can change the scale from one hour to two hour turns any longer. Seems to be just two hour turns, which I don't think really matters. There are a few other changes to the toolbar.

I also like to play quickly and thought there was a menu item for that in options. Maybe I'm mistaken. But I noted when I turned the sound off the game played quickly, i.e., combat was resolved quickly.

So I'm impressed, and I'm sure there are some things I missed in my quick look at 2.7.
 

pmaidhof

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Played a homebrewed scenario and map using 2.7 this afternoon. Homebrew in a sense that it is relatively small, uncomplicated, but touching on most battle systems to get a refresher with the older game itself and its new attributes. Enjoyed basically a simple division on divsion meeting engagement. Good fun.

Would look forward to some new"er" scenarios.
 
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CPangracs

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The military version of Decisive Action requires a keen understanding of the military planning process and rewards planning over tactical decisions. The introduction of a fairly detailed logistics function requires the player(s), if they so desire, to pay a great deal of attention to their supply chain, or they will be in a world of hurt soon after being engaged by the enemy. There is also an improved ATO function that allows the player to input 24 hours of sorties and targets.

The current version is the result of over 4 years of improvements supported solely by the Command and General Staff College. My team, along with Vincent Taijeron who now runs the sim center at West Point, has been instrumental in testing and developing DA into what it is today.

That being said, the current version of DA is NOT a "beer and pretzels" wargame. It is foremost a teaching tool, and is used to exercise some of the greatest up-and-coming military minds in the US military. Fortunately, it is STILL an enjoyable game!

We are able to teach the basics of DA and how to set-up and run an exercise in about 4 hours. We also have "tutorials" that we use to help students grasp the basic concepts. If you contact one of us, we can help you to grasp the "concepts".

We continue to push the development of DA by working very closely with Jim Lunsford. We also realize how satisfying and fun DA can be, even when we work with it all the time. If there are people who want to play against the "pros", contact myself or Dr. James Sterrett, and we'll get you set-up with one of our newer team members. They could use the practice!

Curt
 

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Has anyone here tried Jim Lunsford's other game,"Defending the Reich?" If so, any thoughts on it?
 

JWW

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One note on logistics and a question for cpangracs. Looking at two or three of the scenarios, it looks as if the default is to play with logistics off. The units are now set to not expend any log points for movement or combat. So to play a scenario with the new log system, you would have to not only create your supply convoys but also edit all the units so that they expend supply normally. That really wouldn't take that long and would only have to be done once if you then saved the scenario (under a new name if you wanted to keep the original scenario as is). Is that correct?
 
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