FT vs AFV and TK Case A (C7.21)

[Yarlis]

When you fire a FT vs an AFV Rear Target Facing from 1 hex range, the Basic TK of 8 goes up to 9, as per TK Case A.
This seems clear enough, but...
As FT make no TH, what if the AFV is fired through the Hull Rear Target Facing & Turret Front Target Facing, due to different VCA and TCA?

Thanks

Yarlis

 

[alanp]

There is a sentence in D3.2[v.1, I warn you(!)]that says "If the LOS of the firing unit runs exactly along a hex-spine of the target hex. . .the target facing is that which is least favorable" In your example, it's not a hex-spine but it is a shot coming in with 2 target facings; it'd probably be the least favorable, ie. 'rear', drm used.

Alan

 

[Seabee Mark]

Maybe the FT's Original TK DR determines whether its the hull of turret facing? Similar to OBA HE. But I doubt it.

I lean toward Alan's D3.2 suggestion, though it doesn't quite match what Yarlis presents -but keep reading, its "least favorable to the attacker." So I'd say the FT does not get the Case A rear facing DRM.

However, standing by to be educated....

Mark

 

[da priest]

The only TK modifiers are listed on the C7.34 chart as the "Only TK# Modifiers". Rear target is not one.... :dead:

 

[alanp]

C7.21 specifies FT for obtaining modified TK#:'case A'. Then C7.344 says caseC & D aren't used, but nothing of 'A'. ie. case 'A' is applicable for Rear Target Facing. Have they added the word "only" on the Chap.C divider section C7.34? Is this another difference between ASLRBv1 and v2? (My v1 doesn't specify "only" on either the chart or in the RB) I've obviously gotta get me one. . .
I,m sure this shot has been resolved by now so how did you decide?
Alan

 

[Yarlis]

Rear Target is not on the C7.34 chart, ok.

Then, the Chart or C7.21 rule are wrong.

C7.21: "The Basic TK# vs an AFV hit (or attacked by FT/DC/MOL) in its armored Rear Target Facing is always increased by one."

 

[Chris Milne]

C7.344 last sentence: 'Other factors ... do not modify the Basic TK#.'

Since Case A is not explicitly listed, it would appear to overrule the statement in C7.21. Still, worth a Perry Sez, I would think...

 

[Yarlis]

Here is a Perry Sez about the matter (Perry is really fast to answer, thanks):

This is a question concerning rule C7.21 and HE&Flame TK Table>Rules C7.21 says "The Basic TK# vs an AFV hit (or attacked by FT...) in its armored Rear Target Facing is always incresed by one". HE&Flame TK Table says (Note B, for FT) that ONLY TK# modifiers are "Half if Long range, +1 if CE, +2 if OT" Does rule C7.21 really apply for FT/DC/MOL attacks vs AFV's?
Yes, since it is not specifically negated in C7.344.

If the answer is YES, does it apply the same if the AFV is fired through the Hull Rear Target Facing & Turret Front Target Facing (or viceversa), due to different VCA and TCA?

To see if the Rear Target Facing applies, you must use the VCA for a Hull

Hit or use the TCA for a Turret Hit (C3.9).

....Perry

MMP


But I believe my second question wasn't clear enough, as I didn't mention the FT attack. Or, does the FT Original TK# DR serve to know the Location of the Hit?

 

[alanp]

Yarlis, you're correct: the RTF may or may not apply w/ a FT, but Perry hasn't been in on this thread, so he didn't realize the "FT(thus no TH)aspect" of your question. Since he's so quick, another Perry sez?

 

[Yarlis]

Yeah, Alanp, another Perry Sez is on the way...I've asked Perry again, to clarify the matter.

 

[Yarlis]

And here is the answer...


> As FT attacks makes

> no TH, do you use the FT Original TK# DR to determine the Location of

> the Hit (Hull, Turret), in order to know if Case A applies or not?

Yes, use the TK DR.

....Perry

MMP

 

[alanp]

good little tid-bit to know, Yarlis. Now, what happened to the tank--and the FT-toting guys who're faced with this problem???

 

[Yarlis]

The question arised because while playing "Hamlet's demise" (A114 from Annual 97) the German Pioneer squad managed to get a FT shot to the Rear VCA/Front TCA of the french tank, and the subsequent AFPh shot was... yes, an Original DR of 9.
Application of TK Case A would make the difference.

We decided to consider this as n.e.

But after that, in next MPh, (and after unsuccesful CC vs the tank) the Pioneers were able to set the tank ablaze with a TK DR of 3.

So, happy ending for the Germans, after all (...and for me, as I was playing as the Germans)

 

[Chris Milne]

Let me guess - you're winning. Not one of the most balanced scenarios in history...