Fire Group Cowering and Fire Lane

Houtje

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The way I read it: when rolling doubles (and no exceptions apply) all units involved cower (the rules elsewhere also say, that the attack cowers; as said, I think that is not helpful). If it's just one unit, it is the one marked FFed of PFed. If there's more than one, RS determines which are marked. Regardless, since all units cowered, Fire Lanes are not placed. That's pretty logical to me.

A more reflective remark: I think that the reason for the RS is not meant to possibly 'save' Fire Lanes from being not-placed, but to prevent (as much as possible) a massive FG to be FF'ed all at once; i.e. in order to prevent one doubles die roll to hamstring a whole bunch of units at once.
 

Robin Reeve

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There is indeed a wording problem.
But the rule specifies that the units that cower are marked by Prep/Final counters and that those units are RSelected.
I see no additional reason to the selection.
I find that saying that the FG cowers is contradictory with only some units cowering.
Would you also prohibit a non selected unit from maintaining the ROF of its MG (e.g. if snakes were rolled)?

I think that a question should be sent to MMP.
 

Houtje

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"Would you also prohibit a non selected unit from maintaining the ROF of its MG (e.g. if snakes were rolled)?"
No, I don't think so. The idea being: the whole attack was a bit of a hasty and uncoordinated affair, and one or more units (the ones selected by RS) are really done for the time being (this fire phase). Others can possibly still do other stuff - even possibly trying again to lay down a Fire Lane, as long as they kept ROF.

Wording problem: yes, I agree that this is a real problem. As said, it may well be that the intent of the rules is how you interpret them, but then the rules would need cleaning up to make this clear.
 

Robin Reeve

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I will send the following question to MMP :

Squad A with an LMG and Squad B Defensive First Fire as a Fire Group, not directed by a leader.
Squad A states that it will place a Fire Lane.
The DFF DR is (non breakdown) doubles, which indicates that cowering occurs.
Random Selection designates Squad B as being marked by Final Fire.
Can Squad A still place its FL ? In other words, is it considered as having cowered, pertaining to the placement of a Fire Lane ?
 

Stewart

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"You don't seem to have noticed that A7.9 clearly says that the units that cower are marked by a Prep Fire/Final Fire."
No, I didn't miss that. But it is not as clear-cut to me as it seems to be to you or others. E.g., if some units supposedly did not Cower (since not selected by RS), then why would the entire attack be on a lower column?

It may well be that the rule was intended the way you interpret it, but as written, it is not clear.
It's the same reasoning as ONLY one unit in a FG is CX, why should the others be penalized.
 

holdit

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"You don't seem to have noticed that A7.9 clearly says that the units that cower are marked by a Prep Fire/Final Fire."
No, I didn't miss that. But it is not as clear-cut to me as it seems to be to you or others. E.g., if some units supposedly did not Cower (since not selected by RS), then why would the entire attack be on a lower column?

It may well be that the rule was intended the way you interpret it, but as written, it is not clear.
Not only that, but if some units are deemed by RS not to have cowered and not to have a Prep/Final Fire counter placed, do they then get to shoot again? That's what the rules seem to say.
 

Vinnie

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Not only that, but if some units are deemed by RS not to have cowered and not to have a Prep/Final Fire counter placed, do they then get to shoot again? That's what the rules seem to say.
If they are capable of firing again, they can do so. Roll double 1s with 2 squads each only firing a LMG, if both cower, neither csan fire again, either with rate or inherent. The one that did not cower is not marked with a prep fire or other counter so can fire both rof and inherent. The opther is marked and can no longer fire.
If both were prep firing using their inherent only and had no SW then neither could fire againwhether they cower or not.
 

holdit

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If they are capable of firing again, they can do so. Roll double 1s with 2 squads each only firing a LMG, if both cower, neither csan fire again, either with rate or inherent. The one that did not cower is not marked with a prep fire or other counter so can fire both rof and inherent. The opther is marked and can no longer fire.
If both were prep firing using their inherent only and had no SW then neither could fire againwhether they cower or not.
Yes the first sentence I understand - even if the rule doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. I don't see why they aren't all just marked with Prep Fire counters except for the ROF-rolling SW's of those MMCs that didn't cower. Anyway, thanks for the clarification in the second sentence. I'll play it that way from now on. I'd got into the habit of just dropping IFT FP on cowering, marking everyone PF/FF and just moving on. It was a re-read of the rules that prompted my question.
 

Robin Reeve

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Here is Perry's answer :

Situation
  • Squad A with an LMG and Squad B Defensive First Fire as a Fire Group, not directed by a leader.
  • Squad A states that it will place a Fire Lane.
  • The DFF DR is (non breakdown) doubles, which indicates that cowering occurs.
  • Random Selection designates Squad B as being marked by Final Fire.
Questions:
  • Can Squad A still place its FL ?
  • In other words, is it considered as having cowered, pertaining to the placement of a Fire Lane?
Answers
Yes.
No.

....Perry
MMP
 
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