Excess baggage

[Gordon]

Considering all the Panzerfausts and ATMMs that late war German squads lug around you'd think their inherent PP capacity should be reduced.

 

[Actionjick]

Considering all the Panzerfausts and ATMMs that late war German squads lug around you'd think their inherent PP capacity should be reduced.

I totally agree, inherent support weapons are a personal pet peeve of mine.

 

[Robin Reeve]

There already is the inherent LMG (+ ammo boxes) of most squads, the grenades and other stuff.
A PF is very light to carry, and requires no ammo.
An ATMM is also quite small.
I prefer to live with the 3PP abstraction, rather than count beans.

 

[Actionjick]

I am in no way advocating getting rid of inherent support weapons, way too much water under the bridge for that. Besides you can always use house rules or SSR to address the situation.

 

[Gordon]

There already is the inherent LMG (+ ammo boxes) of most squads, the grenades and other stuff.
A PF is very light to carry, and requires no ammo.
An ATMM is also quite small.
I prefer to live with the 3PP abstraction, rather than count beans.

Sure, they may individually be lightweight, but they don't weigh nothing (ATMM weighed 3 Kg/6.6 Lbs to 3.5 Kg/7.7 Lbs each) and they do take up space. 10 guys can only carry so much along with, as you say, the inherent LMG and ammo, grenades, etc.. A Bazooka has an x10 not because it malfunctioned a lot, but due to the limited number of rocket rounds carried yet 1 squad of late war Übermenschen can apparently magically carry around enough panzerfaust and ATMM to single-handedly snuff out a tank company and still lug around a MMG. We have variation in squad types and ELR during the course of the war. It wouldn't have been unreasonable to account for the additional inherent weapons of late war German/Axis squads with a reduced PP capacity (say reduced to 2). Anyway, just chit-chat.

 

[Ric of The LBC]

I prefer to live with the 3PP abstraction, rather than count beans.

As a kid playing army I don't recall anyone saying "I want to be a Supply Sgt."

 

[Actionjick]

As a kid playing army I don't recall anyone saying "I want to be a Supply Sgt."

Yeah but Don Rickles showed the advantages of that job in Kelly's Heroes.

 

[Ric of The LBC]

Yeah but Don Rickles showed the advantages of that job in Kelly's Heroes.

and almost got blown up for his effort. "Maybe the guy is a Republican?"

 

[Actionjick]

and almost got blown up for his effort. "Maybe the guy is a Republican?"

So many great lines! The Longest Day too.

" Is that your rifle son?
Yes General Sir.
Don't you think you should get it? You're bound to need it before the day is done. "

That's paraphrased but one of my favorites.

" Your prospects for a long sleep are excellent! " lmfao

 

[Gordon]

As a kid playing army I don't recall anyone saying "I want to be a Supply Sgt."

"Amateurs talk strategy; professionals talk logistics" - General Norman Schwarzkopf.

 

[Ric of The LBC]

"Amateurs talk strategy; professionals talk logistics" - General Norman Schwarzkopf.

"What's fun about that?" Josh Baskin

 

[von Marwitz]

I am in no way advocating getting rid of inherent support weapons, way too much water under the bridge for that. Besides you can always use house rules or SSR to address the situation.

What about the inherent BAR & ammo for the standard US 6-6-6, for example?

IMHO it's better not to start meddling with PP for inherent SW.

von Marwitz

 

[Robin Reeve]

The 666 could even be a 2 BAR squad, compared with the 546 which would only have one.

 

[sswann]

Except for swimming, I carried a BAR just as easily as the M14.

 

[Jwil2020]

The 666 could even be a 2 BAR squad, compared with the 546 which would only have one.

A minor point and not a big deal, but I believe the American 6-6-6 represents a standard 1st line infantry squad that was originally equipped with one BAR, not two. The 5-4-6s represent less experienced 2nd-line infantry, also equipped with one BAR. Like most of the other nationalities' 2nd line squads in ASL, the reduced range and firepower are supposed to abstract their alleged tendency to avoid engaging at full range and making use of their full firepower potential.

FWIW, I realize that the OP was merely offering an opinion- something perfectly fine on a forum called ASL Chit-Chat. Not that anyone cares, but IMHO, I completely agree with the sentiment of others expressed above: I think the PP rules work fine as they are now. Methinks ASL has enough chrome as it is. Why fix something that isn't broken?

 

[Robin Reeve]

How would the frequently 2 BAR equipped squad be represented?
It wasn't the official allotment for sure, but many squads opted for a second BAR.

 

[zgrose]

> How would the frequently 2 BAR equipped squad be represented?

Just spitballing, but one option is to increase the ELR#, thereby allowing the squads to maintain their FP/Range/etc longer due to the extra weaponry at hand.

 

[Eagle4ty]

How would the frequently 2 BAR equipped squad be represented?
It wasn't the official allotment for sure, but many squads opted for a second BAR.

One could even equip such non-standard TOE Sqds with a Johnson LMG to represent the additional FP available. Of course, there are many ways one could account for the additional FP (or lack thereof even) as the ASL Sqd is simply a best approximation of its capabilities and composition. By war's end and usually in intense combat situations, rarely does the Sqd represent the full TOE of men and equipment allocated to the unit, let alone those willing enough to actively and effectively engage their enemy with all the weapon systems at their disposal.

I remember myself as an infantry squad leader of a 9 man squad (including myself), I could effectively discount one or two men as complete doorknobs, incapable of relying upon them to accomplish much if anything, two or three men either too inexperienced or not motivated enough to do much more than look out for their own well-being, so that left me with 3-4 men at best, discounting myself, that I could rely upon to effectively tackle a given situation.

 

[Robin Reeve]

The counters can indeed represent units at different levels of quality and missing one or two men.
But a second BAR was a quite frequent occurrence, so there should be some difference from a one BAR squad.
Second liners should be more frequent at the beginning of the Normandy campaign, due to inexperience and the lack of a second BAR, fir an example.
Some scenarios do it, IIRC.

 

[Barking Monkey]

Considering all the Panzerfausts and ATMMs that late war German squads lug around you'd think their inherent PP capacity should be reduced.

Based on my typical availability rolls, I'm not sure my German squad PP capacity shouldn't be increased...(they do like to duck and cover though - maybe they're looking for dropped Panzerfausts.) At least it's not as bad as my luck with radios.

On a more serious note, it's an interesting concept but the can of worms opened would be big-box discount store volume. You've got smoke grenades (smoky and Willy), molotov cocktails, illuminating rounds...the list goes on.