DFF and RF in a 2 MF simultaneous move ( entering a building, etc....)

[tmanmerlin]

I know this is correct, but can't convince myself with the rule book.

A unit moves into a 2 MF "cost" hex. It can not be fired on 'during' the first MF , leaving RF, and then be attacked with the RF 'during' the second MF of the simultaneous MF expenditure.


Why is this correct ( or is it)

Here is my thinking as to why it isn't possible:

The 2MF is spent in one simultaneous move, the RF doesn't attack until "Thereafter", you have to spend new, non-simultaneous MF in the RF hex.

8.2

Thereafter, any unit entering (or expending MF/MP in) that same Location in the same MPh is attacked on the IFT with the FP represented by that Residual FP counter.

---

Why it might be possible: considering the following for double firing at a unit expending 2MF, even by the same MMC or SW.

i.e. A unit can be fired on twice in the same location by the same unit if it spends 2MF in that location, even if simultaneous, as long as the unit has opportunity to fire again (ROF, SFF, )

8.14 A unit that survives a Defensive First Fire attack with no effect can be fired on again in that same Location during its MPh before expending additional MF/MP, but only by different attackers or if it expended at least two MF/MP in that Location (see 9.2).

9.2
However, during the MPh a DEFENDER MG cannot fire at the same unit in the same Location more times than the number of MF/MP expended by the target in that Location

8.3

if the moving unit expends only one MF and draws Defensive First Fire, that Defensive First Firer cannot immediately Subsequent First Fire at it until it expends another MF

Thanks in advance for all input.

<edited for spelling>

 

[Larry]

A unit moving can be attacked on the first MF or the second MF, or both. RFP attacks subsequent MF expenditures. Your thinking is correct.

 

[Philippe D.]

In most cases, the 2MF (or more) expenditure takes place before any form of DFF: by the time you get to fire at the moving unit, consequences of its move have already happened. The most frequent include DM status to now adjacent broken units, or Location/Hex/Building control. So you cannot break the expenditure into smaller pieces and have them take attacks from RFF for the first one.

The only exception to this that I can think of is as pointed out in your other thread: DC placement. The main consequence of the action is conditioned on the placing unit remaining unpinned and unbroken.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

The only exception to this that I can think of is as pointed out in your other thread: DC placement. The main consequence of the action is conditioned on the placing unit remaining unpinned and unbroken.

IIRC, these are two other exceptions:
#1 - attempting to enter a vehicle (either as an inherent crew, Passenger, or Rider) - fails if pinned/broken/eliminated due to DFF vs the MF spent to "load up".
#2 - attemping to un-hook a Gun while unloading from a vehicle. Gun is not unhooked if pinned/broken/eliminated due to DFF vs the MF spent to unload.

 

[zgrose]

I know this is correct, but can't convince myself with the rule book.

A unit moves into a 2 MF "cost" hex. It can not be fired on 'during' the first MF , leaving RF, and then be attacked with the RF 'during' the second MF of the simultaneous MF expenditure.

I believe the rules you are looking for are in A8.22, in the bullet list.

 

[tmanmerlin]

I believe the rules you are looking for are in A8.22, in the bullet list.

Existing Residual FP is always the first Defensive First Fire attack allowed against a moving unit in its current Location during its MPh.

So, technically, you could not have RF attack after a defensive fire that causes the RF in a location where you spend more than 1MF in a simultaneous expenditure.

also in 8.22:

Residual FP does not attack until any activity that a MF/MP expenditure allowed is completed (e.g., placing SMOKE grenades, SW Recovery, Searching, firing a Smoke Dispenser, etc.)

So, the simultaneous MF expenditure must complete before the RF could then attack.

As we discussed in another thread, DC placement, during the placement, can cause a RF attack that stops the placement before the placement is completed, when the RF is in a hex where the RF was placed when the unit previously moved into the location, is an exception as the RF will stop the DC placement. DFF and RF in a 2 MF simultaneous move ( entering a building, etc....) | GameSquad Forums