Defensive fire Baz.

[BHBillett]

Just to be clear I think the "have to shoot it first" thing is fine in order to avoid the gaminess. I have always thought that the rule about which phases was / is clear in that MPh was not allowed. I don't think it is a big deal to allow it in the MPh either. I just would not have thought to even ask based on the way the rule is written.

Seth

I suspect our wires have crossed, I am not talking about firing in movement phase exactly. I think what you are referring to is in MY movement phase, I am talking more about firing in my opponents movement phase and I don't think there is an exact definition of DFF during the opponents movement. What phase would that be considered? Movement or defensive fire? It kind of falls in a crack, one of the VERY few in this game!

 

[chris_olden]

So as I read your statement, you claim the Baz. does not use a to hit table because it has it's own "to hit table". It's still a to hit table isn't it? Forgive me but that doesn't make a lot of sense. Could you expand on that for me please?

BAZ is a SW, not a GUN.

 

[semenza]

I suspect our wires have crossed, I am not talking about firing in movement phase exactly. I think what you are referring to is in MY movement phase, I am talking more about firing in my opponents movement phase and I don't think there is an exact definition of DFF during the opponents movement. What phase would that be considered? Movement or defensive fire? It kind of falls in a crack, one of the VERY few in this game!

Right, I am talking about firing smoke as Def. First Fire during the opponents MPh.

The rule says smoke may be fired in the Defensive Fire Phase or the Prep Fire Phase. The Defensive Fire Phase is not the opponents MPh even though Def, First Fire takes place during the opponents MPh.

Like I said ^^^ it doesn't really matter much to me if a Q&A ends up allowing it to be fired in the opponents MPh. Upon reading the rule, the distinction seems clear and I would have not thought to ask.

Seth

 

[BHBillett]

Thank you.
b

 

[drchilds]

C8.6... WP can be fired during any friendly fire phase. Just pointing out the exception.

 

[Zugführer]

A BAZ is ordnance, because any weapon that must secure a hit on a To Hit Table before resolving the effect of that hit on either the IFT or To Kill Table is termed ordnance.

Smoke may be placed by ordnance/OBA only at the start of the owner’s PFPh/DFPh. So, it cannot be placed in the enemy's MPh.

Unlike Smoke, WP may be fired by ordnance during (but prior to any friendly unit firing anything other than SMOKE) any friendly fire phase—not just the PFPh/DFPh—although placement in other than the PFPh results in Dispersed WP. Is the enemy's MPh a friendly fire phase?

I don't think so, because Friendly is: "having to do with the Nationality controlled by the player" and Fire Phases are PFPh, DFPh & AFPh only.

So, WP fire during the enemy MPh is not allowed.

 

[Larry]

The PS disagrees:

A8.1 & C8.6
May a Gun fire WP during DFF (is DFF considered a friendly fire phase – C8.6?)? I’d say yes (which would explain exception about non moving units in A24.31).

A. Yes, provided no other non-WP DFF has occurred; C8.6. {1}

 

[Zugführer]

Then they should change the wording of the rules. For example: "Unlike Smoke, WP may be fired by ordnance during (but prior to any friendly unit firing anything other than SMOKE) any friendly fire phase—not just the PFPh/DFPh—although placement in other than the PFPh results in Dispersed WP." According to the rules as written the MPh is not a friendly fire phase. It is neither a "friendly" phase nor a "fire" phase.

 

[BHBillett]

Ah thank you gentlemen. It's as clear as the a river at high flood stage!
Great discussion though. Decided it wasn't worth the effort in the end and simply didn't even try.
Rules Vs Reality!
OK Sarge, we got the WP loaded. Should we fire it at them?
No Hank, Better hold off, they are moving and it says right here in the field manual sec, C8.6 your not allowed to do that.
Who the hell gave you Baz. when you haven't even read the manual?
Ummm, You did sarge....

 

[Ralph Malf]

I was wondering about this subject when playing the Hatten In Flames CG with lots of US Bazookas with WP.
The two quotes below are from the latest updated E-Rulebook.
It appears that C8.6 merely allows WP to be fired in the AFPh unlike regular Smoke.
The Q&A answer is allowing WP to fired in the Opponent's MPh only if adhering to the "must be fired before any other type of shot" restriction which applies to all Smoke shots.

C8.6 WHITE PHOSPHORUS (WP): Unlike Smoke, WP may be fired by ordnance during (but prior to any friendly unit firing anything other than SMOKE) any friendly fire phase—not just the PFPh/DFPh—al though placement in other than the PFPh results in Dispersed WP (see A24.5). See 1.71 and A24.31-.32 for further effects.

The definition of Fire Phase from the Index is:
Fire Phase: PFPh, DFPh & AFPh

The definition of ordnance from the Index is below. Note my highlighting of " a To Hit Table."
Ordnance (any weapon which must score a hit on a To Hit Table before rolling again on the IFT or To Kill Table to resolve that hit): C.2 [Area Fire: C.4] [vs Boats: E5.52] [Cowering NA: A7.9] [DYO: H1.3] [ENEMY Fire Action: S8.2] [Listings: Chapter H] [Motion/Non-Stopped Fire: D2.42] [Non qualified use: A21.13] [Normal Range: A10.532] [Residual FP: A8.25] [SW fire before Inherent FP: S8.22] [vs Unarmored Vehicle: D6.71] [Using IFE: C2.29]

 

[Michael R]

He may have meant the C3 To Hit table, which a Baz does not use.