Crusader Kings 2

Scott Tortorice

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I like the new interface!

[video=youtube;N6EGuswky2Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6EGuswky2Y[/video]

But I hate the fact that we need to wait a full year! :hissyfit:

Oh well. Guess I'll just put some more time in the original.
 

Palantir

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At least that’s good news.

Crusader Kings can be covered in 1 word- "patience."
If you have it in excess you'll like the game if not it will bore you into quitting and quickly.

After liking this game initially I sadly quit playing because of the sheer amount of nothing to do for hour after hour. Having to wait for the A.I. to do something or trying to raise enough money or waiting for the "right" ruler to advance, or to die or to be born was too much for me. And that is the heart & soul of this game: like that and you'll love CK.

I understand the slow pace of a game that goes day by day in trying to raise a dynasty & lasting 400 years but I think I was spending more time watching TV waiting for something "helpful" to happen or time to just pass than actively playing the game. Except for ONE thing the rapid-fire pace of "pop up" notifications concerning marriages, "promotions," takeovers, divorces, births & deaths across the world was maddening. (Which can be tuned off, although then you might miss that one important takeover, birth or promotion notice that you've been waiting 100 years for...)

The idea that you can start as any of the "provinces" and rise to Ruler is wrong. I'd say that only 10% of the hundreds of provinces have any chance of allowing you to advance above the lowest level. Which forces the play into certain paths. Sure you can start as a small province in Ireland but with no money, men or recourses & no way to improve what’s the point? So you if you want to start in Ireland you have to be "X" province and the same for everywhere else in the world. It would be like historically playing Greece in WW2, sure you can play for a bit but your time & ending in it is already determined. Which is why you play Germany or Russia to have a chance.

I really wanted to like this game even adding mods etc but the amount of nothingness, (unless you wanted to look over every single person's stats in the game & plan detailed "future what IF actions") just wore on my nerves.

Oddly I still give the game a solid A+ for what it does & it does it in great historical depth which is why I bought it in the first place. But the amount of waiting was not something I expected or enjoyed. With a faster pace & more "conquest" aspect I would still playing it.

If you like the historical time period, depth of genetic bloodline research, a slow real world pace and have patience you’ll probably enjoy this game.
{I just hope in CK2 they added at least a bit of randomness to the character portraits.}
 

Scott Tortorice

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It's funny: I recently re-installed the game (out of frustration with Elemental's gimped dynastic system :rolleyes: - that game is really getting on my nerves) and reached the same conclusion as you. :D

CK is one of those typical grand strategy games where the player is invited to watch the AI play against itself while he tries to find a way to muscle in on the action. Like you said, but for the random events - which aren't handled as well as they should be - there in no 'game' in the game. It's just a sim that runs in real time without any real need for human input. At times it feels like a module for a bigger game that never was released. If only there was a way to graph CK's dynastic system onto Elemental's bare frame. THEN we might have a proper game from the two half-games. :D

Oh well. I hope CKII will actually include a game. I read in one of the dev postings that CKII will include "objectives", so it seems that they realize that more gameplay is needed for the sequel. It would be so much fun to have a Medieval Total War type of battle system incorporated into CKII in some fashion. It would certainly liven things up.
 

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With that brief glance it looks like they cleaned up the boring screens and made the bloodlines easier to understand.

However, if it's the same wait for "someone" to show up and little real "conquest" going on by the player I'll pass on it.
 

Scott Tortorice

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Here's an E3 walkthrough:

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-crusader-kings/716261

Clearly a lot of work has gone into the UI! I really like the Sins/Elemental style interface with its smooth zooming. I still need to see more of the gameplay to know if it will be more entertaining than the original, but things certainly seem to be heading in the right direction.
 

Scott Tortorice

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I just booted up the demo and I have to say I am impressed! Haven't played a campaign yet (I hope you can at least sample a bit of it), but the tutorial is really impressive and quite detailed, something that should go a long way in making the game more comprehensible. The UI also has a nice amount of changes that will make the game much more of a joy to play.

Anybody else give it a try yet?
 

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I tried it. I found the tutorial alittle obscure at times and not straightforward at all in places, it felt like a tutorial for the old CK players rather than a total newbie, terminology wasn't explained enough at all.

I grew bored quickly and it felt repetitious at times.

I also hate the realtime aspect, if it was WEGO or turn based I'd have found it more enjoyable, or even if you had options on when the game should pause, it may have them but I didn't see them.

The game is lovely to look at and I can tell it's a brilliant game I just find certain mechanics obtrusive.
 

Scott Tortorice

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After spending about four hours trying my hand in two campaigns, I have to say that I am really looking forward to this game's release! It's strange because the mechanics haven't changed that much from the original, but I think the new, slick UI has gone a long way in making the game more transparent, and hence, much more involving. Also, based on the demo, it seems those multiple choice questions that used to pop up all the time have been toned down some, giving you more time to focus on the strategy map.

Having said that, the game still can be slow at time, but I felt that is was now less "spreadsheet slow" and more "Distant Worlds" slow where you are just waiting for something interesting to happen rather than just feeling shut out from the gameplay.

For example, last night I played one of the four character campaigns available in the demo - some queen of Tuscana? in Northern Italy. Well, she had quite the wild ride under my tutelage. I first married her off to a German duke so that the Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire wouldn't inherit her lands in the event of her death. That accomplished, I entered one of those boring periods where there wasn't a lot to do (there are now personal goals you can set for your sovereign, but so far I haven't found them to be all that interesting. Plots - which are nefarious goals - are more interesting, but seem pretty gutsy and risky - such as plotting the death of a spouse. But I need to explore both of these some more), so I fooled around with some minor goals, such as preparing to go to war against the Shah of Sardinia (obviously I didn't take the time to remember any official names).

But then interesting things started happening. First, my mother informed me that she wanted to be my spymaster. :D Well, coincidentally (?) my spymaster just happened to die a year or so later (natural causes?), so I put her in the spot to keep her happy. Then, out of the blue, the Lombards declared war on me and marshaled all their forces. I did the same, but in retrospect I think I did it wrong, though, as I raised not just my personal levees, but realm levees, something that I believe ticked off the Holy Roman Emperor - more on that later. There was a huge battle in some province where all the forces converged. It was a real nail biter too. First, we were losing. Then, when my reinforcements arrives, we were winning, and big! But then the Lombards brought in more reinforcements and we were routed...bad (btw: the new battle mechanic is pretty cool - you can watch the battle unfold in the form of a overview plan. Hard to explain, need to get a screenshot, but you can see three wings of each army and what they are doing from moment to moment).

What forces I had escaped back to my province, while the enemy laid siege to one of my cities. My marshal was killed in the mege-battle, so I appointed another, a bishop who had a good marshal rating. Well, this ticked off on my of courtiers who insisted he had a better competency. I told him to give the bishop a chance. And I did - resulting in another route. :D So I removed the bishop and replaced him with the upstart - who would lose another battle :D. Unfortunately, my previous bishop marshal, who was demoted to commanding a wing of the army, was captured and found himself in a Lombard dungeon. :(

Meanwhile, in a bit of good news during this dark war, my queen had conceived a child with her German duke and gave birth to a son...I promptly named Frodo. :D I really did! :clown:

But I was still annoyed with the state of the war and desperate. So, first, I successfully assassinated the Lombard general laying siege my city. :skull: This, unfortunately, hurt my piety rating and did nothing to relieve the siege. Then, in a big gamble, I attempted to assassinate the Lombard king. I failed. Not only did I fail, but my assassin was captured and blabbed my name under torture! This was to be my downfall because I guess I crossed some invisible line. It was at that point my mother and spymaster informed me that I was to be placed under arrest by order of the Holy Roman Emperor and she would rule in my place as regent! :mad:

So there I sat, in a dungeon, fuming at my fate. Being completey out of forces (the player continues to play, but now with the stats of his regent), I sued for peace with the Lombard king, being forced to give up my best province. He agreed and even released my captured bishop general. As a way of apology, I granted my bishop a landed title, and made him a prince bishop. He was happy with that.

Then another crisis: I fell ill in prison with a high fever. Things didn't look good. :kotz:

But I recovered.

Time to get serious. I immediately purchased a papal indulgence and improved my rating with the pope in asking forgiveness for my (assassination) sins.

Then another crisis: my mother died after about a year as regent (the stress? :D), making my marshal the new regent.

My next strategy was to start repairing relations with the Holy Roman Emperor to get my the heck out of prision...but I happened to glance at the clock and saw it was 4:30 in the morning! :crosseye:

So that was my six year adventure in CKII (you can play from 1066 to 1452...think of the possibilities!). As you can see, it was a lot of fun and I am definitely looking forward to it's release. I can't wait to do a full AAR. :cool:
 

Wodin

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I had a sadistic debauched courtier called Wanko....

The AAR's are always superb with regards to the old series, just I never get it when I'm playing myself, again due to a lack of knowledge on who is who and roughly what my overall plan should be.

I will be buying it though.
 
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Scott Tortorice

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I had a sadistic debauched courtier called Wanko....
Are you...serious? :D

The AAR's are always superb with regards to the old series, just I never get it when I'm playing myself, again due to a lack of knowledge on who is who and roughly what my overall plan should be.
Yeah, that was my feeling with the original, too. Between that, and having to fight the UI, it made the experience less than enjoyable for me.

CK2 still has some problems in this regard, but it is a much improved game. I've already had more fun from the demo than I ever did with the original.

Looks like we can count on some good mods, too:

MOD: Lowland and Lotharingia

and

Mod: Empires Everywhere


and (of course)

Game of Thrones mod

Can't wait to see all the modding really get going once the full game is out!
 

Wodin

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Yeah Wanko was a courtier for the Polish King!

I had another go and find I'm really enjoying it. Lots of things happening, though I'm still lost with regards to terminology. It's a def buy from me.
 

Scott Tortorice

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Yeah, there was a lot of that in the CK, and some remains in CK2, but it doesn't seem as bad. I think it is because of how they streamlined the mechanics. Now it is easier to focus on the underlying gameplay and begin your scheming because you have a better idea of what is going on in the world. In some ways, the strategic gameplay feels more like Total War now in that you can more easily see the possibilities for trouble-making. :)

I was hanging around on the official forums last night and found it interesting that a bunch of people who didn't like the original CK were really enjoying the demo. That's pretty much my opinion, too. I definitely would give the demo a spin if you didn't like the original but still like the concept.
 

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Well, I cut so much context out of that quote that I think you missed my meaning. You were giving that as a good thing, as opposed to feeling like you were running a speadsheet. I agree (with it being good, and already felt that way about the first game. I never had the spreadsheet feeling you complained of. The UI was certainly poor, but once I comprehended it, I really liked CK.
 

Scott Tortorice

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Well, I cut so much context out of that quote that I think you missed my meaning. You were giving that as a good thing, as opposed to feeling like you were running a speadsheet. I agree (with it being good, and already felt that way about the first game. I never had the spreadsheet feeling you complained of. The UI was certainly poor, but once I comprehended it, I really liked CK.
Ahh, I get your meaning now. Yeah, for me, CK1 was just too slow and didn't feel like it invited the player to play the game. I think this was largely due to the awful UI that made everything seem much more difficult. CK2 seems much slicker in this regard, and I guess that is why I am enjoying it more.
 

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I just downloaded the demo to see what all the fuss was about. I might be in over my head but I like what I see... I think...
 

Scott Tortorice

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The manual has been released:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/content.php?857-Crusader-Kings-II-Manual

I have to say that this seems to be a well thought out release, unlike another Paradox game that involved spaceships....:whist: The demo is remarkably bug free for such a deep game and now we can even download the manual before the game is released.

Well done, Paradox! :thumup:
 
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