CE AFV Enters Enemy MMC Hex - No Overrun Declared (Not enough MP)

[Earl_8minus0]

Team

Need your help to understand my 'stupid' action of moving my CE AFV into an enemy's hex and getting hit by Defensive First Fire (with +2 DRM) - so I fail my MC and go 'stun' (little stun). When can the enemy squad now attempt his PAATC against my now "STOPPED" AFV - now during my Movement phase like usual if OVR had been declared - or wait till the Close Combat phase (as he is now going to attack it since I can't leave the hex)?

Break

Did we play the above correctly - Defensive First Fire.

Due to the Q&A (D7.1 & D7.2) of Yes for reaction fire against CE AFV entering a hex and the end of D7.1 - An OVRing vehicle may not declare a Gun Duel (C2.2401); instead, the OVR is resolved on the IFT immediately after the MP expenditure [EXC: Bog DR, and defensive First Fire other than Reaction Fire (7.2), prompted by that MP expenditure (or by the MF expenditure of accompanying Infantry using Human Wave {A25.23} and Armored Assault {9.31}) are resolved first]. - "Defensive First Fire" is key to my reading of the above.

I went with the MMC taking a Defensive First Fire attack against my CE +2 DRM AFV - yes or no?

If No - explain the D7.1, D7.2 Reaction Fire reason being used when no OVERRUN was declared??

Break

Now when or can the MMC 'Close Combat' the now 'STOPPED' AFV in his hex - Movement or CC Phase?

Break

As always Rule Reference numbers in your response are always a help in understanding how you reached your response.

Thanks for any guidance you can provide - and again if I hadn't entered the hex he could have still done Defensive First Fire against my CE AFV so why not wait and do it when I enter and get Triple Fire Power.

Later,

Earl

 

[klasmalmstrom]

The MMC can attempt CC Reaction Fire vs that last MP expenditure before the stun result. D7.21.

 

[Earl_8minus0]

Klas

Sorry but I don't understand your response/answer.

When I read D7.1 - 7.21 CC REACTION FIRE: Each Infantry/Cavalry DEFENDER unit that is unbroken, unpinned and neither Unarmed (A20.5) nor in Melee may attempt CC Reaction Fire, using the CC-vs-vehicle rules (A11.5, etc.; see also 7.211-.213) [EXC: Ambush is NA unless using Street Fighting; 7.211].

What I take from it is that we are dealing with "CC" and the MMC Squad is attacking the CE AFV with "CC-vs-Vehicle Rules".

I want to say that my take on D7.1 - allows for the MMC to do Defensive First Fire on the CE AFV.

Break

The attack results in a 'stun' - not sure but in no way can MP expenditure cause 'stun' in my mind.

Thanks for any additional clarification you can make to your response - and my request for additional clarification.

Later,

Earl

 

[klasmalmstrom]

The IFT attack the caused the stun result was taken vs the MP expended to enter the Location where the enemy was.

Assuming the enemy in that Location can still perform a CC Reaction Fire attack (as a defensive first fire attack), it can do so vs that same MP expended.
Of course in the example you give, if the MP cost to enter the Location was only 1 MP and the all the enemy in the Location were the one who made the IFT attack that caused the stun, then they can't, since only 1 MP was expended.

 

[Earl_8minus0]

Klas

I like your answer - not only because it is how we handled it - but it sort of makes sense on what to do.

Key question - is what if any rule references actually allow it to take place.

Is D7.1 - allowing for the Defensive First Fire attack against the CE AVF?

Or is it some other rules reference and or injunction with D7.1? ?

Break

But I am still confused on what if anything can happen next - and when it might happen.

You reference 7.21 CC Reaction Fire - but not sure if that is right.

As you say the CE AFV expanded 1 MP to enter - MMC Defensive First Fired (per D7.1) - result 'stun'.

Break

So during the AFV CC Phase - can the MMC now CC the 'STOPPED' AFV?

Or do CC now - during the AFV Movement Phase - per D7.21 or D7.22?

Break

Not part of the original question but D7.21 and D7.22 - what is the actual difference between the two?

Later,

Earl

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Key question - is what if any rule references actually allow it to take place.

D7.21:
"Each Infantry/Cavalry DEFENDER unit that is unbroken, unpinned and neither Unarmed (A20.5) nor in Melee may attempt CC Reaction Fire, using the CC-vs-vehicle rules (A11.5, etc. ..."

D7.2:
"...Except as stated otherwise, a DEFENDER may use Reaction Fire as often as it is able to use the various forms of First/Final Fire. ..."

I am sure the OVR Flowchart might spell this out as well.