Berserker with DC charging AFV

Randy Strader

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Hello, a Russian unit is in a woods hex two hexes away from a German AFV. The AFV's hex and intervening hex are both Open Ground. The unit possesses a DC. Its owner announces that the unit will use Assault Movement to enter the ADJACENT hex (1 MF) and then attempt to Place the DC on the German AFV (another 1 MF). On the expenditure of the first MF, the AFV fires its CMG. The result is HOB and the Russian unit goes Berserk. My opponent and I checked and it seems the Berserk unit is at that point free of the limitations of Assault Movement, has its MF increased and must charge the AFV, attempting to enter its Location. So far, so good (I hope) A15.43-431. Our questions concerns the usage of the DC from this point:

example.jpg

A15.431 says of 1PP SWs, the Berserker: "may use them in the DFPh/AFPh prior to that, and must still carry those it can retain (DC can only be Thrown—not Placed or Set)." This says the Berserker cannot Place the DC; it also implies that it cannot Throw the DC either, given the limitation of its usage during a Fire Phase as we're in MPh.

DC rule A23.3 states: "Should the Placing unit survive (unbroken and unpinned, even if newly berserk) all enemy Defensive First Fire, Subsequent First Fire, and FPF in the Placement Hex (including any resulting from the expenditure of MF in the Placement of that DC), the weapon is considered operably Placed." The bolded portion confuses me relative to A15.431 above.

It would seem the Berserk unit could not Place the DC and remain in the intervening hex (A15.43 Charge), but also could not Place the DC and remain in the AFVs hex to suffer the explosion (A23.61). Is the Berserk unit's only option to cancel the usage of the DC, enter the AFV's Location, and engage the AFV in CC? Thanks in advance.
 
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Mr Incredible

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You are placing the DC from the ADJACENT hex prior to going berserk and thus it is now placed.

The unit then becomes berserk and goes bat sh!t crazy and charges in after it.

Then boom!

Only thing I'm not clear on is if the berserker is attacked too. I'm thinking no.

BTW, did you take a PAATC before placing the DC?
 

Randy Strader

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Should have mentioned the PAATC, yes it was taken. According to my understanding, despite Assault Movement being one hex, the expenditures for the move into the ADJACENT Location and for the Placement itself are separate 1MF expenditures. The shot happened on the first. So the unit went Berserk before the Placement expenditure. His "mission" at that moment is now to charge the AFV and hence the rules change regarding DC usage. Hopefully that clears it up; of course, we read the read those sections so many times I could be completely wrapped around the axle.
 

klasmalmstrom

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Should have mentioned the PAATC, yes it was taken. According to my understanding, despite Assault Movement being one hex, the expenditures for the move into the ADJACENT Location and for the Placement itself are separate 1MF expenditures. The shot happened on the first....
Then there wouldn't have been a PAATC yet, as it is taken before the second MF expenditure.


So the unit went Berserk before the Placement expenditure. His "mission" at that moment is now to charge the AFV and hence the rules change regarding DC usage. Hopefully that clears it up; of course, we read the read those sections so many times I could be completely wrapped around the axle.
The squad - if it had been Japanese - could have Thrown the DC vs the AFV in the AFPh.

A23.61:
"A DC may not be Thrown to, or Placed in, the same Location occupied by the unit possessing it—unless the unit is Japanese or the target is a vehicle in Bypass in the same Location as the Placing/Throwing unit."

So its option now is to engage the AFV in CC should it survive until the CCPh.
 

Mr Incredible

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Ah, 1MF to enter before placing.

A little different to how I describe.

Only option is to charge in, no throwing of the DC and then jump onto the AFV and try and pry the thing open.
 

Eagle4ty

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Since a Thrown DC may only be used during a friendly Fire Phase that rules out throwing the DC during the MPh and as pointed out, only the Japanese may throw a DC in its own location, so as others have stated, it would be unable to use the DC and would have to engage the AFV in CC (other factors remaining the same until the CCPh).
 

Randy Strader

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Then there wouldn't have been a PAATC yet, as it is taken before the second MF expenditure.
Indeed, we played this incorrectly, my opponent rolled for the PAATC the moment he entered the Location ADJACENT to the AFV.

A23.61:
"A DC may not be Thrown to, or Placed in, the same Location occupied by the unit possessing it—unless the unit is Japanese or the target is a vehicle in Bypass in the same Location as the Placing/Throwing unit."

So its option now is to engage the AFV in CC should it survive until the CCPh.
Ah, I see now why I got confused on this (esp bolded portion in my post above). The "even if newly berserk" follows the result of the Placement MF expenditure, then potential fire by AFV.

Still, during our playing, it seemed counter-intuitive at that moment that a berserk unit could not use a DC in this situation. And thus we ask for clarification. Thanks for the responses.
 
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