Adv into OG in LOS; qualify for concelament for ambush?

GamerGeek

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Hi All,

In a current CG of Barricades a question came up with differences in rule interpretation regarding assault movement into an OG hex to engage units therein in CC.

I had always believed that a unit that ADV into an OG hex to engage in CC looses his ? immediately for doing so during the Adv phase, thus he is NOT concealed for the upcoming CC phase, and therefore does not qualify for Ambush.

Just spent the morning trying to sort this out, but it is not as clear as I would like it to be, and one could argue the opposite interpretation as the rules do not appear to be crystal clear. Surprise surprise!

My main argument is as follows and is how I had always played:

According to the A12.121 Conceal Loss/gain chart; Infantry in the LOS of a good order unit and in ? Terrain loose their ? On a ABCD which I read as condition A or cond B or cond C or cond D.

Section A is where you loose ? when attacking, and specifically mentions ambush, so far my opponent would be correct

However,

B reads (shortened) Units looses concelament "if moves/advances/withdraws into an OG hex".

I would argue that the second case would mean the unit ADV into an OG hex regardless of the upcoming CC would loose ?, and therefore NOT qualify for ambush in the upcoming CC phase.

Is my interpretation correct? and is there any further text/examples to clear this up.

Thanks,

Blake
 

alanp

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I believe this just came up in a game da Priest and I just finished.

You're saying a '?' stack Advances into an OG hex with Good Order enemy who are the only GO enemy in LOS. The '?' would lose '?' as the enemy is GO until they're held in melee - next turn - and your troops "advanced into OG in LOS of GO enemy".

They lose '?', there's no ambush.
Hope this helps.
 

Carl

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Blake,

You're correct. Advancing into OG in LOS of a GO enemy unit is a concealment loss activity regardless if the GO enemy unit is in the ehx advanced into or not.

Hope this helps.

Carl
 

GamerGeek

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Hope so Jack.

This is a game against the always tricky Chuck Tripp from the great state of Alaska. Playing a VASL CG of Barricades. As to the above, the enemy being advanced against is NOT the only one with LOS.

Any specific rules section, or Ex to highlight this interpretation?

Blake
 

zgrose

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GamerGeek said:
As to the above, the enemy being advanced against is NOT the only one with LOS.
Not sure why this would matter. The concealment table clearly says if note B is applicable, advancing into OG cause concealment loss. Since you have mentioned there are now > 1 enemy unit with LOS to the advancing unit and within <= 16 hexes then note B obviously applies and concealment is lost.
 
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alanp

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Yup, the "A12.121 Concealment Loss/Hain Table" is the place to look.

sometimes even though there are other GO enemy ground units in LOS, the one(s) in the hex you're advancing into are the only ones which would view their own hex as 'open ground' per A10.531; if, say, there are hedges around it, or brush intervenig to the other units.

but, we're all in agreement: they lose '?' so there shouldn't be ambush--unless the troops you're advancing into are concealed themselves. . .
 

Reepicheep

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alanp said:
but, we're all in agreement: they lose '?' so there shouldn't be ambush--unless the troops you're advancing into are concealed themselves. . .
Mind you, if the defending units are concealed then the advancing troops won't lose "?" advancing into the hex since there'll be no enemy units in LOS, unless the defender unconceals at least one unit to cause concealment loss.
 

Commissar Piotr

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Hello Gents and Reepicheep

As far as I know just needed to temporarily reveal so the defender still keeps concealment afterwards.
 

Reepicheep

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Ah, quite right. I was getting my wires crossed momentarily and thinking in MPh terms... ie. detection.
 

GamerGeek

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Thanks all who weighed in.

Just wanted to insure my interpretation jibed with everyone else.

My opponent and I continue to duke it out in the streets of Stalingrad.

Thanks Everyone,

Blake
 
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