#85 The Good Shepherd

[macrobo]

Hi all

Its a long one - very long as showing lots of lots of plays of same game... from operation veritable HS30 - goes back decades since this was published
Nice tricky attacks and defences - use of concealment etc etc
Nice tricky use of vehicles - WASP annoying all in particular
Nice rules reveals that seem to maybe a tendency for the different player
Some rule mistakes but als we are human aren't we

Overal very much worth the watch - like a scenario Reply or AAR on steroids - I learn't sooo much!!!!

Cheers

Rob

 

[Doug Leslie]

Hi all

Its a long one - very long as showing lots of lots of plays of same game... from operation veritable HS30 - goes back decades since this was published
Nice tricky attacks and defences - use of concealment etc etc
Nice tricky use of vehicles - WASP annoying all in particular
Nice rules reveals that seem to maybe a tendency for the different player
Some rule mistakes but als we are human aren't we

Overall very much worth the watch - like a scenario Reply or AAR on steroids - I learn't sooo much!!!!

Cheers

Rob

You forgot to post the link!

The Wasp didn't annoy me too much in my game since it ran out of petrol for its FT at the second time of asking and was then wrongly recalled (since it has 5 PP) when it should have remained onboard to fire its nasty smoke dispenser. The replay also doesn't show that one of the reasons that the Canadians started to disappear from the board was that my first four sniper dr attempts produced a "1". Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good. Thanks to Tom for taking these vicissitudes of fortune with good grace and being a pleasure to play against.

 

[Tuomo]

Thanks to Tom for taking these vicissitudes of fortune with good grace and being a pleasure to play against.

I assure you, Doug, that was a sham. Inside I was cursing your ancestors.

Yeah, I was the bloke who said that a competent German couldn't lose this scenario. Clearly that was bitter invective from the thrashing I took from Doug; perhaps a better phrasing would be: "It's fricking impossible to beat Doug's defense, curse his ancestors, begorrah". I don't mind how active his Sniper was; at least it was picking on a poor squad (which became a HS and eventually died) up in the right hand corner. But Doug's defense maximized a bunch of 4-, 6-, and 8-flat shots as I came through the hedges on board h, and the volume of fire just had to pay off. I didn't even attack his strong (left) side and still ate all those shots from his blokes perched on Level 2. A well-planned defense, that was.

Quite honestly, I don't get this scenario. The Germans have everything they need to defend with, and the Canadians have not enough strength and have some awkward VCs. Taking the big central building should not be possible, which means they have to split their force, and they just don't have the strength to do it.

"Oh, but they have the Wasp". OK, and what if the Wasp X's out early? I tried cursing Doug's ancestors; didn't work.

Those two Woods hexes in hE5-F5 are great spots for the Mines.

At any rate. Thanks to Doug for putting up with my incessant cursing and invective-muttering, which I attributed to "Skype problems" but meant every word of. Never fun to lose, but always a pleasure to contend against a strong defense, and of course having a friendly and engaging opponent like Doug makes it all the better.

 

[Doug Leslie]

I assure you, Doug, that was a sham. Inside I was cursing your ancestors.

Yeah, I was the bloke who said that a competent German couldn't lose this scenario. Clearly that was bitter invective from the thrashing I took from Doug; perhaps a better phrasing would be: "It's fricking impossible to beat Doug's defense, curse his ancestors, begorrah". I don't mind how active his Sniper was; at least it was picking on a poor squad (which became a HS and eventually died) up in the right hand corner. But Doug's defense maximized a bunch of 4-, 6-, and 8-flat shots as I came through the hedges on board h, and the volume of fire just had to pay off. I didn't even attack his strong (left) side and still ate all those shots from his blokes perched on Level 2. A well-planned defense, that was.

Quite honestly, I don't get this scenario. The Germans have everything they need to defend with, and the Canadians have not enough strength and have some awkward VCs. Taking the big central building should not be possible, which means they have to split their force, and they just don't have the strength to do it.

"Oh, but they have the Wasp". OK, and what if the Wasp X's out early? I tried cursing Doug's ancestors; didn't work.

Those two Woods hexes in hE5-F5 are great spots for the Mines.

At any rate. Thanks to Doug for putting up with my incessant cursing and invective-muttering, which I attributed to "Skype problems" but meant every word of. Never fun to lose, but always a pleasure to contend against a strong defense, and of course having a friendly and engaging opponent like Doug makes it all the better.

I originally had the mines in L1 and L2 which is both a victory building and a key approach to the rear buildings on the German right flank (the Toby Pilling recipe for mine placement). Then I had visions of Canadians swarming the E1 building through the woods, so I moved them there. When your guys came down so heavy on my right flank, I was kicking myself! The key to this scenario is that the Canadians cannot win just by going down the German left as there are only three victory buildings there including the central building which is a tough nut to crack. The bulk of the attack has to aim for the three buildings to the right of the central building (as yours did) but I feel that the Canadians have to make an attempt to take the E1 building for the fourth. From there, they can support the guys to their left and also threaten the E4 building. Maybe the "Good Shepherd" should lead that assault. Any plan which requires capture of the big central building is going to toil because there is so much real estate to clear there. The Wasp is a huge factor in this scenario, which is why I had all of my guys on the second floor in order to halve its firepower. When it only got off one attack before running out of flame, the Canadians were in trouble. I think that this is a scenario where the Canadians can win if their toys don't break down. In addition to the loss of the Wasp, your Shermans also had problems with MA malfunction and that obviously aided the cause of the defence quite considerably. Of course, my Stug also broke its MA at the first time of asking, but it was too late to matter by that time. I think that in the game between Simon Staniforth and Paul Legg, the Canadians were given the balance (an extra Sherman!). I would definitely favour them with that addition to their OB.

As stated in the commentary, trench placement is a bit of a conundrum here. I put mine where I did because the orchard in D1 seemed like a good spot for a HIP HS with panzerschreck and, as Martin noted, it would force any Shermans coming that way to take a bog DR. The other HIP HS in B1 helped reinforce the defence on that flank and I kind of hoped that the lack of obvious defenders in that area would encourage you to come that way. As it turned out, you didn't but the lone Sherman that stopped there was too tempting a target to pass up and it was time to charge. Fortunately, I got lucky with the CC attack after breaking the schreck and gacking any attempt to fire a panzerfaust. I was also lucky to get the kill when, despite having the necessary reminder set up to the right of the playing area, I forgot to roll for an ATMM!

I think that we both wrongly thought that your driving a tank into the ground floor of H4 and going CE had the effect of freezing the MMG squad and leader in the floor above it but I don't think that this is the case. The tank would have to be in bypass to do that. This error on my part allowed your 9-2 and accompanying infantry to waltz through open ground into the building and I was fortunate that the defenders managed to break the leader despite the building TEM.

As a general observation, players should always remember that hand to hand combat is an option in deluxe scenarios and this came in handy at the end when my German HS took out a leader and squad in H2 in a "suicide attack".

Anyway, it was a fun game and maybe we can organise a re-match some time!

 

[Tuomo]

I think that we both wrongly thought that your driving a tank into the ground floor of H4 and going CE had the effect of freezing the MMG squad and leader in the floor above it but I don't think that this is the case. The tank would have to be in bypass to do that.

I think the stairwell in that hex opened up LOS between the levels, and gave you a 0-range SFF opportunity, which precluded firing outside the hex (at 1-hex range) . Would be glad to be shown wrong, though!

Tom

 

[Doug Leslie]

I think the stairwell in that hex opened up LOS between the levels, and gave you a 0-range SFF opportunity, which precluded firing outside the hex (at 1-hex range) . Would be glad to be shown wrong, though!

Tom

They hadn't fired at that point IIRC, so we hadn't reached the SFF stage.

 

[Tuomo]

They hadn't fired at that point IIRC, so we hadn't reached the SFF stage.

Then yeah, they would not have been frozen; the CE AFV would not have been presenting a TPBF situation. Sorry if I sleazed you - things were obviously getting desperate and I would have pulled out an old Monopoly rule if it'd have helped me.

 

[Tuomo]

Think I got it. This is the point in Canadian turn 4 that we're talking about, right? The previously-stunned Sherman had entered H4 CE, rolled snakes on its Bog Check, taken a 16+2 shot from the 447/MMG upstairs, failed the 2MC, which caused him to become STUN/Recalled, so he Stopped and went BU. The 447 was First Fired, but the MMG retained ROF and was not marked:

Then the 9-2's stack moved over to I5, and my claim was that the MMG's Covered Arc was already set going downstairs (A9.21), and therefore it could only fire into H4 Level 0. So it could not fire at the 9-2's stack in I5. Course, once the 9-2's stack entered H4, the MMG did fire, and bad things happened to the Canadians, but I THINK we played it right:



Ewps. Aside from not putting 4 RFP in H4 Level 0 from the squad's First Fire shot, was this sequence with the MMG not correct? Or maybe I'm remembering it wrong and the MMG did not First Fire at the CE tank downstairs at all, in which case yeah, his CA would not have been restricted and he was free to shoot at I5...

Either way, both the 9-2 and his squad wound up breaking in H4, so Fate was not on their side.

 

[bendizoid]

Think I got it. This is the point in Canadian turn 4 that we're talking about, right? The previously-stunned Sherman had entered H4 CE, rolled snakes on its Bog Check, taken a 16+2 shot from the 447/MMG upstairs, failed the 2MC, which caused him to become STUN/Recalled, so he Stopped and went BU. The 447 was First Fired, but the MMG retained ROF and was not marked:

View attachment 25263

Then the 9-2's stack moved over to I5, and my claim was that the MMG's Covered Arc was already set going downstairs (A9.21), and therefore it could only fire into H4 Level 0. So it could not fire at the 9-2's stack in I5. Course, once the 9-2's stack entered H4, the MMG did fire, and bad things happened to the Canadians, but I THINK we played it right:
View attachment 25262
View attachment 25264

Ewps. Aside from not putting 4 RFP in H4 Level 0 from the squad's First Fire shot, was this sequence with the MMG not correct? Or maybe I'm remembering it wrong and the MMG did not First Fire at the CE tank downstairs at all, in which case yeah, his CA would not have been restricted and he was free to shoot at I5...

Either way, both the 9-2 and his squad wound up breaking in H4, so Fate was not on their side.

At the start of Final Fire (oxymoron?)CA is removed for MGs.

 

[Doug Leslie]

Think I got it. This is the point in Canadian turn 4 that we're talking about, right? The previously-stunned Sherman had entered H4 CE, rolled snakes on its Bog Check, taken a 16+2 shot from the 447/MMG upstairs, failed the 2MC, which caused him to become STUN/Recalled, so he Stopped and went BU. The 447 was First Fired, but the MMG retained ROF and was not marked:

View attachment 25263

Then the 9-2's stack moved over to I5, and my claim was that the MMG's Covered Arc was already set going downstairs (A9.21), and therefore it could only fire into H4 Level 0. So it could not fire at the 9-2's stack in I5. Course, once the 9-2's stack entered H4, the MMG did fire, and bad things happened to the Canadians, but I THINK we played it right:
View attachment 25262
View attachment 25264

Ewps. Aside from not putting 4 RFP in H4 Level 0 from the squad's First Fire shot, was this sequence with the MMG not correct? Or maybe I'm remembering it wrong and the MMG did not First Fire at the CE tank downstairs at all, in which case yeah, his CA would not have been restricted and he was free to shoot at I5...

Either way, both the 9-2 and his squad wound up breaking in H4, so Fate was not on their side.

Ah yes, that seems more like it. The AFV had to be BU when it entered the building location but then went CE, presumably to "freeze" the units upstairs (at least that's what I thought at the time). I thought that I had to make it BU in order to be able to fire into the street but, as you say, this fixed the MG CA and the 9-2 with accompanying squad could now cross I5 safely. Maybe you knew that there was no freeze but wanted to tempt me into doing what I did? If so, bravo!

 

[Tuomo]

I THINK I intended to tempt you into shooting at them, but honestly, given my performance during the rest of the game, that's probably giving me far too much credit

It's rare for me to be like, "Welp, I lost that one but I can't be annoyed cuz it was such a good defense." This was one of those cases. So Bravo back atcha!

 

[JoeArthur]

Watching that lot I have to agree with Mr Desperation Morale who stated that given the small (in hexes) boards there is not much room for manoeuver and they tend to be bloody affairs.

Many thanks for more content gents

 

[AdrianE]

Congrats to the one player who remembered B28.5 and swapped for AT mines.

The SSR allows the German to boresight and this sets up some really nasty opportunities for the INF gun. Bore sight an adjacent hex that the Canadians must enter (EXC gun in L3 with L2 BS), and you could be getting CHs on a 7 or less. (-2 adjacent, -2 BS, -2 ACQ +2 TEM).

I like E2 Level 2, K3 Level 2 and I4 level 2 for HIP control denying HS. If the Canadian player forgets to mop up or clear those hexes, they lose.

 

[Tuomo]

Congrats to the one player who remembered B28.5 and swapped for AT mines

Given how vulnerable the Wasp can be to plain-old infantry fire and how restricted the attack front is, I think the AP mines are a better bet.

But OTOH, out of those 8 games, how many Wasps were lost to infantry fire? Seems like people did a good job of keeping them in play.

 

[Doug Leslie]

Congrats to the one player who remembered B28.5 and swapped for AT mines.

The SSR allows the German to boresight and this sets up some really nasty opportunities for the INF gun. Bore sight an adjacent hex that the Canadians must enter (EXC gun in L3 with L2 BS), and you could be getting CHs on a 7 or less. (-2 adjacent, -2 BS, -2 ACQ +2 TEM).

I like E2 Level 2, K3 Level 2 and I4 level 2 for HIP control denying HS. If the Canadian player forgets to mop up or clear those hexes, they lose.

I originally planned my set up with AT mines but, on reflection, decided that AP would be more useful if placed in bog terrain to make it harder for the Shermans to put down trail breaks. As it happened, the Canadians came by a different route but them’s the breaks.