Critical Hit, Random Selection, Followed By a KIA

[Larry]

An AFV on a woods road hex changes TCA to attack three personnel units that have snuck up behind it. After all the modifiers, needs a 3 TH. The DR is 1,1. The defender rolls for RS and rolls 3,3,3. The attacker rolls a 2,3 on the 24-1 column for a 1KIA against all three units.

Consensus at the WCM: no second RS roll. All subject to the 1KIA individually.

I believe that because all units are subject to the same results roll, the 1KIA, we have to roll for the KIA and everyone else is broken absent a second Yahtzee. A.9. "Whenever an event occurs calling for the Random Selection of on ore mo9re units in a hex, a dr is made for each such unit therein." The CH calls for RS and the 1KIA independently calls for RS.

You are the TD. Now you make the call.

 

[Sparafucil3]

An AFV on a woods road hex changes TCA to attack three personnel units that have snuck up behind it. After all the modifiers, needs a 3 TH. The DR is 1,1. The defender rolls for RS and rolls 3,3,3. The attacker rolls a 2,3 on the 24-1 column for a 1KIA against all three units.

Consensus at the WCM: no second RS roll. All subject to the 1KIA individually.

I believe that because all units are subject to the same results roll, the 1KIA, we have to roll for the KIA and everyone else is broken absent a second Yahtzee. A.9. "Whenever an event occurs calling for the Random Selection of on ore mo9re units in a hex, a dr is made for each such unit therein." The CH calls for RS and the 1KIA independently calls for RS.

You are the TD. Now you make the call.

Edit to ADD: I was all wrong. See what Klas wrote. The RS determines who is eligible for the 1KIA result. Stupid rules. -- jim

 

[Paul John]

Yes, but I suspect it wasn't a critical hit to begin with absent a subsequent DR assuming infantry target type. You needed to roll less than half the original TH (likely 8) for the final TH and you had what looks like a +5 modifier after all was added up, so a 7 is not an automatic crit. The 1,1 means you still get to roll a single die and 1-4 yields a crit still, but 5 or 6 is a normal hit.
If it is actually a critical hit, then the RS yatzhee means that all get that 1 KIA individually and they are all whacked as you believe.

 

[Sparafucil3]

Yes, but I suspect it wasn't a critical hit to begin with absent a subsequent DR assuming infantry target type. You needed to roll less than half the original TH (likely 8) for the final TH and you had what looks like a +5 modifier after all was added up, so a 7 is not an automatic crit. The 1,1 means you still get to roll a single die and 1-4 yields a crit still, but 5 or 6 is a normal hit.
If it is actually a critical hit, then the RS yatzhee means that all get that 1 KIA individually and they are all whacked as you believe.

This is also probably correct. -- jim

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Consensus at the WCM: no second RS roll. All subject to the 1KIA individually.

I believe there's a second RS. I don't see (unless I am missing something) there being a CH changing things.

I believe it is a single 1KIA - not three. All are subject to the same 24 -1 attack. I am not sure this would be different than if it was an ordinary 24-FP attack directed by a e.g., an 8-1 leader.

 

[grabowbe]

A.9 RANDOM SELECTION: Whenever an event occurs calling for the Random Selection of one or more units in a hex, a dr is made for each such unit therein. The unit with the highest dr is the one affected by that event. If there is a tie for the highest dr, all of the applicable units which rolled that number are affected equally.

I think the first RS roll determines which units in that loaction are struck by a CH and which are struck by a normal hit (C3.74). The RS units are affected equally by a CH and not a normal hit. In this case all tied for highest role and all are subject to the CH result roll.

In the resolution of the CH fire attack, the KIA result requires another RS to determine which units are KIA and which are broken. If there is a tie for the KIA, those tied units are affected equally by the KIA result even if that number exceeds the # on the #KIA rolled.

 

[EagleIV]

Having been at WCM and not asked (and not even aware of this, I may have been at lunch at the time) I would have said as many in the forum that RS would apply again for the 1KIA.

 

[DVexile]

I’m with the second RS roll needed. A relevant Q&A:

A.9 & A7.301 How are differing KIA results resolved vs. multiple units in a Location? For example, if a Location which contains six Good Order HS: A, B, C, D, E and F, is affected by an IFT attack which results, owing to differences in TEM/concealment, in a 1KIA vs. HS A and B, a 2KIA vs. HS C and D, and a 3KIA vs. HS E and F, how do I determine which HS are eliminated and which are broken?

A. Each result applies to each group. A and B roll for Random Selection for a 1KIA per A7.301. C and D suffer a 2KIA and are eliminated. E and F suffer a 3KIA and are eliminated. [Letter8]

Those units that are critically hit form a group like in this Q&A and will then use a RS to see which of them are subjected to elimination.

 

[STAVKA]

I believe there's a second RS. I don't see (unless I am missing something) there being a CH changing things.

Agree.

 

[Paul John]

they are all whacked as you believe

I misunderstood the first post. I thought the RS roll was to see who was hit by the 1KIA.
Klas is (of course) right that the 1KIA then needs a second RS roll to see who is KIA and who is broken.

 

[Larry]

When Jim and Klas disagree, mayhem ensues.

 

[Sparafucil3]

When Jim and Klas disagree, mayhem ensues.

No, Jim pulls his head out of his 4th point of contact and says "Hey! Klas is right!" At least that's how it goes +95% of the time. -- jim

 

[ScottRomanowski]

After all the modifiers, needs a 3 TH. The DR is 1,1

Remember, an Original DR of 2 using the ITT is not an automatic CH, C3.7. Assuming a +5 DRM, the Final DR is not < half the MTH# (This is where doing the arithmetic correctly really matters; don't subtract the DRMs from the MTH#!) so you need a subsequent dr.

 

[Larry]

I think that I stopped reading at the original TH 2. It is plain. Half the modified TH # is a 4 dr. We made other mistakes in the game violating all manner of rules.

 

[Paul John]

violating all manner of rules

LOL

 

[Stewart]

I misunderstood the first post. I thought the RS roll was to see who was hit by the 1KIA.
Klas is (of course) right that the 1KIA then needs a second RS roll to see who is KIA and who is broken.

That's how it reads....It hasn't selected a target yet right?
The 3,3,3 all selected a CH unit equally.