Jwil2020
Senior Member
Ah yes. Read twice. Post once.I think David was referring to the new Expansion Pack 3 which is on the MMP production schedule for this year.
Ah yes. Read twice. Post once.I think David was referring to the new Expansion Pack 3 which is on the MMP production schedule for this year.
Exactly, after SK1, 2 & 3 one would think you are ready for real ASL but obviously many were not ($ Being a major reason) and I can't blame MMP for running with it, it obviously helped the bottom line. My only question is, do you really want to stick with starter kit when there is so much more to enjoy in the full blown system? To each his own, I hope many SK players graduate eventually to the PHD in tactical games, ASL. If they do, maybe we can VASL sometime...I believe that the vast majority of ASLers agrees that SK was a good idea and that it is beneficial for the ASL hobby.
The entry cost is low, and without doubt there are ASLers that have been originally been drawn to it via SK and otherwise would not have been.
I also think that the majority of ASLs acknowledge, that SK has developed into a parallel "ASL Light" system, which was not the original plan but apparently has a market that MMP is well advised to serve.
The point of "criticism" that you hint at might be this:
If you start out with SK and feel that you want "more" after SK1 through 3 at the latest, it is probably the more promising path to switch to full ASL rather than to continue the SK system to become ever more complicated by adding more and more aspects of ASL in a half-way manner.
This way SK will lose the simplicity which is one of its main strengths. And the more expansive SK gets, the more difficult the switch to full ASL will eventually become, turning the original point and idea of SK on its head.
That said, of course, everyone should do as he pleases and as it best befits his personal situation.
von Marwitz
No real argument to this point...however ()...the IJF (Imperial Japanese Forces) don't have to hide so much in Manila.Early PTO rocks, much more fun to play the rampaging Japanese in that time frame in 41 - 42 as in 43 on, they become more and more, mainly targets and often need to hide from overwhelming Allied firepower.
Yeah, I've said this before also...Once you get past a couple SK modules, why would you stay with SK when it would not take much (other than the $) to jump into full blown ASL? No OBA, No Night, No Snipers, No Concealment is not real ASL in my world... SK sure has its place but for many, it's time to move into your graduate studies...
They like those runs because they see all of the broken legs and fatalities on the Double BlackSome folks are cool skiing on the blue and green runs whereas others will desire the challenge of the double black diamonds to explore the entire mountain and we know who helps keep the ski resort profitable
15 ModulesWhat I don't quite understand is the criticism SK gets from the ASL faithful. The implication seems to be that the existence of SK is keeping the full ASL universe from expanding.
It has been a tremendous boost to all areas of ASL...sales and players.However, there is no way to quantitatively determine how many SK guys would be playing full ASL if they had not been given an SK option. One could just as easily argue that SK has indeed accomplished its mission of being an entry point to ASL and that there are more players in the the ranks because of it. I for one can testify that I would not be playing the 'real' game today if I had not first discovered SK.
What I don't understand is why some people get so butt hurt if anyone criticizes SK even just a little bit. The implication seems to be that SK is so perfect it should be untouchable.What I don't quite understand is the criticism SK gets from the ASL faithful.
Totally agree, HASLs should be an ASL thing, not so much a SK thing as now you have to have 2 parallel systems. This will take up more and more resources and smells of the mess the original SL system ended up as, a mess which is why it was redesigned as ASL and consolidated into the one rulebook. This was not what SK was intended to be...What I don't understand is why some people get so butt hurt if anyone criticizes SK even just a little bit. The implication seems to be that SK is so perfect it should be untouchable.
The fact is that SK is slowly becoming more and more complex...the modules are taking more and more resources to develop and publish. It is naive to believe that other products are unavoidably taking a back seat to SK. The question is...where is the jumping off point? Personally, I think it was SK4. What they need is an SK5 that takes 1-4 and melds in some of the most important/critical elements missing from Ch. A-D...include some scenarios that can go either SK or ASL...self-contained like SK 1-4.
I definitely think SK HASL is a way overreach.
Oh, and maybe be a little less defensive about SK.
Of course, I can only speak for myself, but I for one am not hurt by criticism of any game system. I blame my poor communication skills if I came across as defensive. Nor do I believe SK is perfect. If I did, I would not have made the switch to ASL. SK, like its famous progenitor, has its obvious blemishes. The same could be said of every wargame I've ever owned and yet enjoyed playing for countless hours.What I don't understand is why some people get so butt hurt if anyone criticizes SK even just a little bit. The implication seems to be that SK is so perfect it should be untouchable.
others will desire the challenge of the double black diamonds to explore the entire mountain
These comments remind of an idea I had of posting a thread for discussion about if, or not, the concept of ASL is becoming (or has become) bifurcated (or trifucated). And if so, would that be (or is it) a good thing, or not. So I will wait just a bit before posting that thread, just to see how much negativity the idea has (or if it has already been covered in enough detail).Totally agree, HASLs should be an ASL thing, not so much a SK thing as now you have to have 2 parallel systems. This will take up more and more resources and smells of the mess the original SL system ended up as, a mess which is why it was redesigned as ASL and consolidated into the one rulebook. This was not what SK was intended to be...
Starter Kit has its place, it just does not need to mirror all future HASLs with its own, come on andASL HASLs
To bring in new designers and players as well as new concepts and thoughts you need all of ASL.
I get your point, but this cracks me up. I generally wish y'all would stop putting out great stuff so I would be able to actually play more than 3% of it. (Yah, I could ignore the goodies, but brain problems.)This will take up more and more resources
Well said.Cool, they may never play full rules but they are part of the "community".
Yep, it is what it is, as long as it gets more players into the hobby,One. HASL map, one set of counters but with rules written on two levels?
IF the HASL's generate more money than the ASL versions...why would MMP not create them?Starter Kit has its place, it just does not need to mirror all future HASLs with its own, come on and
graduate to real ASL if you want HASLs given the proper treatment they deserve.