Today in ASL I ... (Day to day ASL doings)

[Gordon]

No ASL for me today. Visiting the Australian Armour and Artillery Museum in Cairns, Queensland.

Cool, I love their videos!

 

[Yuri0352]

No ASL for me today. Visiting the Australian Armour and Artillery Museum in Cairns, Queensland.

I've visited Cairns 3 times in my life since 1980... I never knew this museum existed!

 

[Actionjick]

I've visited Cairns 3 times in my life since 1980... I never knew this museum existed!

Seems like a good reason for visit number four.

 

[fenyan]

Showed up late to the ASL Roundtable on Discord and ran into an interesting Rout strategy chat.

 

[Actionjick]

Showed up late to the ASL Roundtable on Discord and ran into an interesting Rout strategy chat.

Did you learn anything cool?

 

[fenyan]

There was an example where units ended their rout next to an enemy concealed stack. The stack unconcealed and eliminated them for Failure to Rout A10.5.

 

[Sparafucil3]

There was an example where units ended their rout next to an enemy concealed stack. The stack unconcealed and eliminated them for Failure to Rout A10.5.

I am pretty sure we got this wrong. I am trying to work it out and do some more research. It doesn't sit well with me how we left it off. More to come. -- jim

 

[Sparafucil3]

There was an example where units ended their rout next to an enemy concealed stack. The stack unconcealed and eliminated them for Failure to Rout A10.5.

We did get it wrong. See the second example under A10.533. I knew it felt wrong. -- jim

Edit to add: See also the M2 rout in the Comprehensive Rout Example. That's the example @Stewart was pointing out.

 

[Michael R]

We did get it wrong. See the second example under A10.533. I knew it felt wrong. -- jim

The example doesn't match the rule, to me. The example implies the broken unit survives because it ended "its" rout not adjacent to a Good Order unit. The rule states "end of the rout phase". Am I missing something?

 

[Sparafucil3]

The example doesn't match the rule, to me. The example implies the broken unit survives because it ended "its" rout not adjacent to a Good Order unit. The rule states "end of the rout phase". Am I missing something?

For those following along, refer to the image. During the discussion, a routing example came up. In the example, the German units routed to E4 and G4 and ended their rout phase there. Before the moving to the APh, the Russian player reveals the 4-4-7 in F3. What happens?

The clearest answer is in the second example under A10.533 which clearly states they are not eliminated.

There is a confounding issue in A10.5. A10.5 says in part "... A broken unit may end its RtPh in an Open Ground hex in the LOS and Normal Range of a Known enemy unit without Interdiction only if it has used Low Crawl (10.52) during that RtPh, but it still may not be ADJACENT to an unbroken and armed Known enemy unit at the end of the RtPh or it will be eliminated for Failure to Rout. ..." The clause after "but" uses the term "the RtPh". Everything before the "but" uses "its RtPh". I believe the usage of "the" after the "but" is a mistake. Not only does changing from "its RtPh" to "the RtPh" change the subject of the sentence, the example under A10.533 make this mistake even more clear.
There are other examples of sentences beginning with "its RtPh" and ending with "the RtPh" in A10. I haven't tracked them all down but I suspect many (if not all) also feature this mistake.

For example, earlier in the A10.533 second example, the following is written: "... The I5 unit cannot rout because any move it made would be ADJACENT to a Known enemy unit; consequently, it must surrender (20.21) or be eliminated at the end of the RtPh for Failure to Rout if No Quarter (20.3) is in effect. ..." As written, the Surrender/FRT occurs at the end of the Rout Phase no at the end of ITS RtPh. We know the game isn't played this way. Think about what the means. Routing is done. No more "this first guy Surrenders and is eliminated invoking No Quarter so everyone else can get away". Everything happens AFTER Rout Phases so everything dies in droves.

TL;DR: I think A10.5 refers to "it RtPh" throughout and using "the RtPh" after the but confounds that. -- jim

 

[Tuomo]

I put in a question to MMP about this about 2 years ago, I think. The answer was "its RPh": ie, if an enemy unit routs and ends up adjacent to my HIP unit, I have to reveal that unit right away (and give the routing unit a chance to bounce off me). I can't wait until my opponent says, "that guy's done routing" and then reveal my HIP guy and kill the broken unit for Failure To Rout.

Hth?

 

[Sparafucil3]

I put in a question to MMP about this about 2 years ago, I think. The answer was "it's RPh": ie, if an enemy unit routs and ends up adjacent to my HIP unit, I have to reveal that unit right away (and give the routing unit a chance to bounce off me). I can't wait until my opponent says, "that guy's done routing" and then reveal my HIP guy and kill the broken unit for Failure To Rout.

Hth?

I looked for Q&A but couldn't find anything matching the situation being discussed. If you have a reference, it might be helpful.

More interesting, this has been around going all the way back to the original 1985 version of the rules. -- jim

 

[Tuomo]

A10.2 and A12.3 - revealing HIPsters in the RtPh to force Failure to Rout

A10.5 & A12.3 A broken unit routs to a Location ADJACENT to a HIP enemy unit and declares it is done routing, even though it has not used up all 6 MF. a) Can the enemy unit then drop HIP and eliminate the broken unit for Failure to Rout, or would the broken unit be allowed to attempt to rout...

www.gamesquad.com

Sorry if it's not relevant to the thread.

 

[Sparafucil3]

A10.2 and A12.3 - revealing HIPsters in the RtPh to force Failure to Rout

A10.5 & A12.3 A broken unit routs to a Location ADJACENT to a HIP enemy unit and declares it is done routing, even though it has not used up all 6 MF. a) Can the enemy unit then drop HIP and eliminate the broken unit for Failure to Rout, or would the broken unit be allowed to attempt to rout...

www.gamesquad.com

Sorry if it's not relevant to the thread.

Nope, that is the same thing and a good reference. Thanks for sharing. -- jim

 

[King Scott II]

First official day of my summer vacation...going to have to talk to the wife about her making noise getting ready for work in the morning while I am sleeping in late.

I did some reading of rules getting ready to start the Dinant CG...awaiting the French setup. Also wrote a brief AAR for the club from the game day this past Saturday. Spent some time looking over the in-progress scenario of SF9 First Do No Harm for my Wednesday night game against Clubby and Jim Aikens. Printing some replacement labels for my counter storage in a few minutes here.

I also received the address confirmation for my folding game tables (Gamefold - The First Folding Table Designed For Gaming: www.yarrostudios.com/gamefold (youtube.com) ), so they should be shipping this week hopefully...woo hoo!!!

Semper Fi!
Scott

 

[Sparafucil3]

First official day of my summer vacation...going to have to talk to the wife about her making noise getting ready for work in the morning while I am sleeping in late.

I retired 2+ years ago. My wife continues to work. I would HIGHLY recommend you don't do this. It is probably bad for your health. -- jim

 

[Actionjick]

I retired 2+ years ago. My wife continues to work. I would HIGHLY recommend you don't do this. It is probably bad for your health. -- jim

Lol I was going to offer the same warning.

 

[fenyan]

I misread that Scott, I thought you wanted her to stop being quiet and make some noise so that you could get up and make her breakfast.

 

[Actionjick]

I misread that Scott, I thought you wanted her to stop being quiet and make some noise so that you could get up and make her breakfast.

A much better course of action.

 

[Carln0130]

Yeah, I enjoy having people play the Dinant CG. They need to be alive to do this. Just dropping this down to the LCD.