We just need better AI

[Hairog]

I love these games. They are the best operational/tactical American Civil War Sims available but...the AI sucks big time.

My schedule doesn't allow me to play any other way but solo. All I need is that the AI do a reasonable job of moving say a division in a cohesive manner to a location I designate then set up a reasonable defense or attack. Nothing fancy just something to take the burden of telling every single brigade exactly how to march to a distant location.

It seems that the current AI cannot think far enough ahead. If you set your objectives too far in advance the AI sends units through hill and dale instead of along the roads. I also know about AI Commander mode and use that but you still have to mess with every brigade.

I know about ALT click to get brigades to move together and that helps a lot but I wish someone could figure out a way to tell a whole division to march in a coherent manner to a distant spot without having to deal with the individual brigades and having them charge into the woods instead of staying on the roads.

Another improvement would be when the units change formation. I tell a brigade to defend a certain hex and they may be 20 hexes away on a perfectly good road and they change formations to line and use half of their movement per turn. Very frustrating.

Here is what I would like to be able to do ...

Tell a division to march to a certain hex staying on the roads, using their maximum movement rate and I would then take it from there.

I would like the AI opponent to be able to do the same but put up a better attack or defense once they got there. Currently I have to jump into the AI side to at least set the defense and attack hexes up for it and that really takes away from the fog of war. To let the AI fight it out alone is just no fun. It's like attacking the Italians in WWII.

I don't expect grand strategic moves or anything but I would like to see the AI put up a reasonable defense or attack of a single hex using the terrain. Most of the time the AI has it's artillery out in front of the main body where it is easy pickings for the calvary. It's things like that that really make these games almost unplayable against the AI.

With all the time and effort placed into scenario design and OoBs and what if situations I just wish someone could give a go at improving the AI.

It is such a marvelous game system it's just a shame to have such a huge and obvious design flaw

 

[wlh]

The programming required for you want would most likely require a game that costs a lot more than they charge. It is my understanding that the Panzer games AI benefited from work done for the government.
Just look at chess. In order to beat a grand master, it took several programmers and a computer that is way beyond our means (Big Blue). Even so, there were allegations about how the computer won. Was it the database of a large number of the chess games played throughout history? Given the cpu horsepower involved the computer could play out the various combinations and make a determination of its move based on an algorithm designed by the programmers. This was for basically 64 hexes with no terrain or weather effects to consider.
Yes, I wish the AI did better for both the civil war and Napoleonic series. On the large scenarios it is lost. On small scenarios that have scripts tailored to the situation the AI can make a creditable attack.
What you can do, is take the editor and create detailed scripts for the AI.
Just my two cents.

Bill

 

[rahamy]

Have you tried any of the scenarios specifically designed for play against the AI in the newest 2 titles? We have some in testing now for a future game as well that have shown the AI putting up a decent challenge.

As Bill said though, getting programming to write a competent AI for the large scenarios just isn't going to happen...you can't interest modern Generals in funding AI programming for 19th century simulations...just won't give them a return on their investment. And none of us have enough money to make a difference.

 

[Hairog]

Which games and which scenarios rahmay?

I guess what I'm wishing for is some super moder that loves these games as much as I do but has the skills I don't.

I would be happy with just an AI that stayed on the roads and in column formation when told to and use those roads to move to a target hex. If I could do it on a division level that would be just fantastic.

 

[rahamy]

I would highly suggest playing around with the scenario editor and trying to write some detailed scripts for a scenario.

Both Chancelorsville & Antiteam have AI specific scenarios included in them. The words AI Challenge are in the scenario file name, so they will be easy to spot in the list...25 in Chancelorsville & 39 in Antietam.

 

[wlh]

In actual battle conditions, units do stray from their assigned positions or routes. Example, d"Erlon I Corps could have turned Quatre Bras into a French victory, but, he marched off to help Napoleon at Ligny and then on orders of Ney started to march back to Quatre Bras. The result I Corps failed to help in either battle. Even so, I do wish the AI did do some things better. For example, in Wagram, the AI does not send units across the river. In one scenario, you can watch the AI march units to the hinterland and away from the battle. Or as in your example, stay on the road.
A possible solution (I do not how feasible it is), is to have a travel mode for the Napoleonic and Civil War series. The AI would know that units in that mode stay on roads. Units caught in a travel mode would suffer greater losses than those in column mode.

One idea:

You could create a series of small scenarios and then tie them together with the campaign editor. A possible example: Antietam. You could start with the northern battles and move south. This could reflect the Union failure to coordinate their attacks.

Bill

 

[rahamy]

One idea:

You could create a series of small scenarios and then tie them together with the campaign editor. A possible example: Antietam. You could start with the northern battles and move south. This could reflect the Union failure to coordinate their attacks.

Bill

That is very doable, just very time consuming to put together. The Campaign Editor is a very powerful tool really...

 

[Hairog]

I'll give the editor a look. However I'm not a programmer etc. and of course I won't be able to surprise myself.

wlh idea is very good. Just create one more mode and that would make the games much more playable and I would think that once it's done for one game it could be ported to all the other games in the series.

You already have a rule that won't let units cross a river hex or are slowed up going up hill or faster on roads. As I said I am not a programmer so maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree but as a layman I don't see why it would be so hard to create a mode that restricts units in that mode to only enter road, pike or trail hexes.

 

[trauth116]

That is very doable, just very time consuming to put together. The Campaign Editor is a very powerful tool really...

As Rich says - doable - and has been done in Campaign Chickamauga; so it should be possible.

 

[krmiller_usa]

The Scenario Editor has a pretty good help file. For a primer on getting started with it you can visit the ACWCO Engineering site at

http://www.acwgc.org/ACWCO_Engineering/

lots of information on the HPS ACW game files there. We don't have anything there yet on working with AI scripts but I've been playing around with them and hope to add something in the future, possibly by the end of the year.

 

[Hairog]

That would be great Ken. I think I can get the hang of it once someone shows me how. All the moders out there could try and write the best AI for some of the most popular scenarios and outwit each other. Could be a cool contest of wits.

If someone could just figure out that travel mode idea that would be very cool.