Understanding the CH Counters.

[hongkongwargamer]

I am sure he is. Pity about his choice of company. I know quite a few of the best designers who made the same mistake.

I hope things work out fairly for him and that his work actually translates into reality.

 

[Tim Niesen]

Don is not a game designer. He is simply among the world experts on armor penetration by shells. Look at his book. We do 1250 naval miniatures together. See our project at Historicon on the miniatures thread. His huge three dimensional mock up of Guadacanal Sound is amazing. 23 feet 4 inches by 13 feet 4 inches. Savo Island is four inches tall!

 

[hongkongwargamer]

No issues with Don. Not sure why you keep bringing up his credentials. I wish him (and his work) the best.

 

[Tim Niesen]

I only own a few of the Critical Hit games myself. I prefer the standard ASL counters to those of Critical Hit, but perhaps I have played with the standard ASL counters for too long that any format out of the ordinary would not appeal to me. I really like the Bounding Fire counters. The map of Wake Island seems very well done. We have not played the game itself. Has anyone done so? Tim

 

[Tim Niesen]

The new highest armor standard for the three Western main battle tanks will be 160. Modern Russian tanks less. Don is suggesting a chipping away effect for subsequent hits. However, the recent successful destruction of more than a dozen Turkish Leopard tanks in Syria by the American advised Kurdish forces seems to call this into question.

 

[Tim Niesen]

Perhaps like the destruction of the American main battle tanks during the Iraq war, these are rear shots.

 

[Tim Niesen]

This thread seems to be dead, therefore I continue. The Turkish Leopard 2s were not destroyed by frontal shots but rather by the Turkish ignorance of the vulnerability of tanks to clever infantry and suicide trucks. A total of 12 were lost. Nine at once in the first incident. Don has seen the images of the burnt out hulks from the sky. Anyway, Don Carlucci has suggested to the designer a chipping away effect of repeated strikes on the frontal armor of the three modern Western battle tanks. American. British. German. Tim

 

[Tim Niesen]

I spoke with a British Army tank commander at Cold Wars. He had been stationed on Cyprus in the Turkish area of control. He told me that the arrogant Turks had thought the Leopard 2 tanks to be virtually invulnerable. No infantry was sent with them. Little did they know.

 

[Tim Niesen]

Opps, There are two Dons. Don D. And Don C. Don D. Is the person who has seen the satellite photos of the burnt out hulks.

 

[larrymarak]

CH is experimenting with overhead art for infantry and light weapons in ATS, which will complete the visual differentiation between CH ASL counters and CH ATS counters.
By the way, besides extending ASL and ATS to the French and Indian War, a further extension to Agincourt is in the early stages of development.

 

[von Marwitz]

CH is experimenting with overhead art for infantry and light weapons in ATS, which will complete the visual differentiation between CH ASL counters and CH ATS counters.
By the way, besides extending ASL and ATS to the French and Indian War, a further extension to Agincourt is in the early stages of development.

Another idea to sell the same coutners again with other artwork?
I'd pass, but each to his own.

von Marwitz

 

[footsteps]

CH is experimenting with overhead art for infantry and light weapons in ATS, which will complete the visual differentiation between CH ASL counters and CH ATS counters.
By the way, besides extending ASL and ATS to the French and Indian War, a further extension to Agincourt is in the early stages of development.

I won't get excited until they develop Roman Legions. And the Peloponnesian War will be a must-have!

 

[larrymarak]

I won't get excited until they develop Roman Legions. And the Peloponnesian War will be a must-have!

There are about 800 years of battle available for Squad leader Ancients. Maybe it should be called Maniple Leader, as that would be the Roman equivalent of the squad. Ray has SO expanded the reach of Squad Leader.

 

[Tim Niesen]

Into the present and into the deep past. Tim

 

[Tim Niesen]

I was less than thrilled by the World War 1 simulation. This system seems even less appropriate for the deep past. But everyone has different tastes. But I have been surprised by the quality of the few WW2 games from Critical Hit that I own. The Wake Island game and especially the mapboard. Tim

 

[robh91]

Don is really far more involved in the revised Tobruck game. Yes, there is a pattern to the armor thickness of AFV. Beyond my Ken. And beyond the Ken of most of us. It goes 0,1,2,3,4,6,8,11,14,18,26. Don has now taken the ASL armor upward further. To the present. Tim

There are some huge, huge errors in CH's damage tables for Tobruk. I haven't got the time to run throught them in detail. Basically all the 50 and 50L AP and APCR columns all screwed up (as in 50 AP is superior to 50L APCR etc etc). Also a whole lot of the data for the French AFVs is identical (and strangely enough identical to the US M3 light tank). Basically it all looks like a fudge - it was too hard to work out the real data so just use the same data for multiple vehicles and hope no-one notices. Have a look through some of the older posts on the BRL1192 Facebook group. The errors have been pointed out to Ray - his typical response "blah, blah, blah we have this MIT guy Don - blah, blah, blah - he is a legend - blah, blah, blah, it will all get fixed when I run it past Don, blah, blah, blah". Not surprisingy, 18 months later and nothing has been corrected. This may be a "printing error" (as in the correct data wasn't printed) but as it is BRL1192 is a shameful, shameful tribute to the original Tobruk. Hal Hock must be rolling in his grave. If I has you friend "Don" I would hang my head in shame for being associated with this garbage...

 

[Tim Niesen]

Thanks, I will bring this to his attention. He has been revising the Advanced Tobruck numbers. I will try and get a response.

 

[Tim Niesen]

Don did tell me that there were errors in the armor of the Advanced Tobruk game. He mentioned specifically that they had the armor of the Grant tank all wrong. I am really not sure at what stage his correction of the previous designers errors is at. Tim

 

[robh91]

Don did tell me that there were errors in the armor of the Advanced Tobruk game. He mentioned specifically that they had the armor of the Grant tank all wrong. I am really not sure at what stage his correction of the previous designers errors is at. Tim

Thanks for the update. I hope the data is “corrected” and circulated. Not surprisingly the majority of the BRL1192 Facebook group have pretty much boycotted any more purchases of the system as Ray hasn’t corrected these “errors”.

 

[Tim Niesen]

Don loved the original Tobruk game in his youth, and his perfectionist nature will ensure that the faulty armor and penetration issues of the old edition of Advanced Tobruk will be corrected. He really is convinced that the penetration and armor issues of tank warfare are more realistically depicted in this game than they are portrayed in ASL. Tim