The fun of adding terrain...

TDR

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When building a map do the various appearance settings of: Desert, Rocky, Grassland, and Frozen, have any effect on movement or are they just purely background colour?

I have gone through the sections on ‘Create a new map’, ‘Add terrain to a map’ and ‘Advanced map drawing techniques’, as well as the additional tutorial bits from RT, TFW and TSATC, but I can not see where it describes the significance of the values in the Vision Reduction and Move Reduction boxes.

With the map I am working on I have to build some of my own terrain types as the available ones do not fit.
I assume that a value of 1 mean no reduction, while a value greater than 1 is an increase.
Eg a value of 1.25 in Movement reduction mean the unit/vehicle will travel at 25% faster than normal. Similarly a value of 0.85 means the speed will not exceed 85% of the normal speed.

What I don’t follow is when there are values like Zero or -1.

Does Zero mean no movement or vision?
Does -1 mean no effect o movement or vision?

These values appear in some of the various terrain types in the various games but I do not follow their meaning.

Thanks
 

Pat Proctor

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Nick,

The appearance settings only effect the color of the output map.

With the map I am working on I have to build some of my own terrain types as the available ones do not fit.
I assume that a value of 1 mean no reduction, while a value greater than 1 is an increase.
Eg a value of 1.25 in Movement reduction mean the unit/vehicle will travel at 25% faster than normal. Similarly a value of 0.85 means the speed will not exceed 85% of the normal speed.

What I don’t follow is when there are values like Zero or -1.

Does Zero mean no movement or vision?
Does -1 mean no effect o movement or vision?
You are correct on the values greater than 0. 1.0 = 100%.

In movement 0 = dismounts only, -1 = no vehicles at all. If you add the "water" attribuite, 0 = shallow water, -1 = deep water.

In vision 0 and <0 values all mean no visibility.
 

TDR

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Thanks fo that. I can not say I follow it fully yet...

Anyway give me about 2 more weeks and I might have the basics of a new map for you to cross check.

The ATF et al. tutorial just does not quiet outline the heavy moments of :mad: or :hmmm: which seem to occur alot in making a map.

Also there is no reference in the tutorials to "Sanity save" or "Sanity Restore"

Nick
 

TDR

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A few more little questions on this..
In the “bihac” map there are situations of two different terrain types overlapping, eg coniferous forest and international border. The tutorial on adding terrain it says ”It is not a good idea to overlap terrain. While it will not 'break' Armored Task Force, it will almost certainly create unanticipated effects

From what I can see if two terrains are placed on the same location on a map then the first terrain type applied to that location seems to be the terrain that is assumed to be the terrain for that location. This is based on the fact that on the bottom bar of the map window, where the grid reference, elevation and terrain type are listed only the terrain name of the first terrain type is listed.
This seems to suggest that the seconds applied terrain, though the one that is visible is in fact not the terrain data information at the overlap position.

Is this the unanticipated effect?

So am I correct in assuming that if I have 2 different terrain types that overlap the first applied terrain type will be the terrain type of that overlap position and the second terrain type though the one visible is not the terrain at that overlap?

If I am correct here its going to save a lot of headaches, and lots of :mad::mad::mad:

Thanks
Nick
 

Pat Proctor

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The honest answer is that I don't know if that will always hold true. That is why we don't recommend it. The IB in Bihac has no view or movement effect, so it is ignored by the engine. Overlapping this terrain type is safe. With other types, you are taking your chances.
 

TDR

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The honest answer is that I don't know if that will always hold true. That is why we don't recommend it. The IB in Bihac has no view or movement effect, so it is ignored by the engine. Overlapping this terrain type is safe. With other types, you are taking your chances.
That is going to make the job harder, if not messier. It almost forces the situation into a nasty abstraction of the terrain.

Is there anyway to determine the resulting vision and movement effects of an overlapped terrain model?

As it is terrain, from a users/players point is just a title with little hint of movement or vision effects. Phrases like ’Reduced Mobility’ and ‘Reduced Vision’ don’t always mean much but a % value could help.

I am working on a version of the Cultana map so you can see the issue re terrain just with the 2 basic vegetation types. Though with the other problem, PTK, it seems I may be starting all over again from scratch.
 

TDR

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The honest answer is that I don't know if that will always hold true. That is why we don't recommend it. The IB in Bihac has no view or movement effect, so it is ignored by the engine. Overlapping this terrain type is safe. With other types, you are taking your chances.
Ok so if theer are vision and movemnet reductions in teh overlapping terrain types can I predetermine the outcome?

I have big areas of light scrub with heavy scrub patches in it.

So if I have unoverlapped terrain types of
Light scrub:
Vision reduction: 0.50
Movement reduction: 0.60

heavy scrub:
Vision reduction: 0.25
Movement reduction: 0.30

Now
heavy scrub- overlap on normal Light Srub type:
Vision reduction: X
Movement reduction: Y

Is there some set of rules so I can precalculate the needed values of X and Y so the resulting overlap zone will have the correct values of simpe heavy scrub?

I have a lot of this type of terrain and its going to be a major pain to draw holes in all the light scrub, not to mention holes/patches in the heavy scrub where there is light scrub.

It is bad enough with railway lines where the embankments vary from 0.25 m through to 4 m in height all neededing seperate terrain types.


I just love this verse:
"I love a sunburnt country,
A land of sweeping plains,
Of rugged mountain ranges,
Of droughts and flooding rains.
I love her far horizons,
I love her jewel-sea,
Her beauty and her terror –
The wide brown land for me!"

from Dorothea McKellar's "My Country"

One can see that Dorothea McKellar never had to do an ATF/AATF map!:mad:
So much for sweeping plains, how about the bumps, lumps and complex vegetaion structures!!!
 

Pat Proctor

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I am afraid I cannot predict, because of the method used to determine locations on the map. We had to come up with a super-fast method of doing thousands of line of sight hit tests in less than a second. The method we came up with has the benefit of allowing you to build up to a 50x50 map, chock full of terrain, with over a hundred units on the map, and still render a playable game. The drawback is that the engine handles overlapped terrain unpredictably, meaning that during scenario design, you have to painstakingly draw the outine of each terrain object so that it doesn't overlap.

I agree that it is a pain in the ass, but it was the only way we could make a game with a map this detailed playable in real time.
 

TDR

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pain in ass!! :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Best understatement I have heard.

Ok, no problem, it will just take longer to deal with and not to mention "SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED!"
 
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