Quick: Need VC explaination for MM82 - Patrolling the Gothic Line

[Kijug]

It seems the VC are that the Americans enter on the east edge, then leave, and get EVP enough to win. What are we missing? I’m wondering if the VC are that the Americans have to exit off the WEST edge to get EVP.

Any thoughts quickly?

 

[Hutch]

With only 3 MMC and 2 SMC’s you will not have enough points to overcome the HIP German pillboxs and unit points. The object is to do recon, damage, then tactfully withdraw on the East edge.

 

[Kijug]

The Americans have 9 VP to start. Minus 3 pillboxes and -1.5 for hidden units (FRD) = 1. Therefore 9 - 4 = 5 EVP.

Huh?

 

[Kijug]

Americans come on board. Find one pillbox (+1.5 VP and only -2 VP for hidden pillboxes). Now Americans have 9+1.5= 10.5 Points . There isn’t enough “negative” points to counter. Americans leave and win.

We’re confused.

 

[Kijug]

There’s got to be a typo in the VC or we missed something—quite possible in ASL! The VC just don’t “add up”.

The Americans start with 9 VP of units. They are down 3 VP for undiscovered pillboxes and “-1/2 CVP (FRD) value for any German unit(s) that remains hidden at game end”. One HIP HS + 8-0 x 1/2VP each = 1VP or 4 VP total. So 9 VP - 4 VP = 5 VP at the start of the scenario. The Americans come on and then leave in turn one. They have 5 VP and win. ???

That said, we played a little…

The Americans climb the hills and skied down the hill and quickly taking one bridge. +1 VP by second turn. The Germans got a good shot and killed the America HS. -1 VP. The Americans found the pillbox overseeing two buildings. +1 VP and only -2 VP for undiscovered pillboxes (a 2VP swing). Turn three. (There are only so many locations that pillbox can be located…but that’s OK).

Now the Americans have 8 VP of units remaining, +1 for pillbox, +1 for bridge, and +1 for killing a German HS = 11 base VP. The Germans have (at this point) -1 VP for killing an American HS, -2 for two pillboxes undiscovered, and -1/2x2=1 VP for HIP units (HS and 8-0) = 4 VP. The Americans, having gotten onto the mountain, turn around and ski down back off the east edge of the board with +4 MF or +6 MF (depending on level two or three when they started). The Germans cannot catch the Americans. The Americans get off board with 11 VP - 4 VP = 7 VP for the easy win.

That said, we had fun with skis and snow. In fact, we got Falling Snow, then Heavy Snow, and even Gusts causing two snow drifts! Check that off the bingo card. Which made it even more difficult for non-ski Germans to do anything to the Americans.

 

[Actionjick]

There’s got to be a typo in the VC or we missed something—quite possible in ASL! The VC just don’t “add up”.

The Americans start with 9 VP of units. They are down 3 VP for undiscovered pillboxes and “-1/2 CVP (FRD) value for any German unit(s) that remains hidden at game end”. One HIP HS + 8-0 x 1/2VP each = 1VP or 4 VP total. So 9 VP - 4 VP = 5 VP at the start of the scenario. The Americans come on and then leave in turn one. They have 5 VP and win. ???

That said, we played a little…

The Americans climb the hills and skied down the hill and quickly taking one bridge. +1 VP by second turn. The Germans got a good shot and killed the America HS. -1 VP. The Americans found the pillbox overseeing two buildings. +1 VP and only -2 VP for undiscovered pillboxes (a 2VP swing). Turn three. (There are only so many locations that pillbox can be located…but that’s OK).

Now the Americans have 8 VP of units remaining, +1 for pillbox, +1 for bridge, and +1 for killing a German HS = 11 base VP. The Germans have (at this point) -1 VP for killing an American HS, -2 for two pillboxes undiscovered, and -1/2x2=1 VP for HIP units (HS and 8-0) = 4 VP. The Americans, having gotten onto the mountain, turn around and ski down back off the east edge of the board with +4 MF or +6 MF (depending on level two or three when they started). The Germans cannot catch the Americans. The Americans get off board with 11 VP - 4 VP = 7 VP for the easy win.

That said, we had fun with skis and snow. In fact, we got Falling Snow, then Heavy Snow, and even Gusts causing two snow drifts! Check that off the bingo card. Which made it even more difficult for non-ski Germans to do anything to the Americans.

Despite the confusion about VC this sounds like a really fun scenario. The idea of a patrolling scenario is very nice.

 

[Hutch]

SSR 3: All fortifications and their CONTENTS set up using HIP.
1/2 VP for any German unit remaining hidden, it seems to me the units in the remaining 2 hidden pillboxes count towards the hidden units. But I have been wrong in the past.

 

[Danno]

With only 3 MMC and 2 SMC’s you will not have enough points to overcome the HIP German pillboxes and unit points. The object is to do recon, damage, then tactfully withdraw on the East edge.

Hutch is correct. The Germans can set up all three pillboxes HIP (3 Points) plus the three squads inside (3 points) plus one squad equivalent HIP outside (1 point). That is a net of 7 negative points. If the Americans do the tactic of coming on and exiting they only gain 9 points. Minus the 7 that is 2 VP. They need 5 to win. Note only Americans can gain or lose VP.

You will have to complete a patrol to win. If the Americans take casualties a negative point balance can build quickly. So things get difficult very fast in combat.

Enjoy the scenario!

 

[Danno]

There’s got to be a typo in the VC or we missed something—quite possible in ASL! The VC just don’t “add up”.

The Americans start with 9 VP of units. They are down 3 VP for undiscovered pillboxes and “-1/2 CVP (FRD) value for any German unit(s) that remains hidden at game end”. One HIP HS + 8-0 x 1/2VP each = 1VP or 4 VP total. So 9 VP - 4 VP = 5 VP at the start of the scenario. The Americans come on and then leave in turn one. They have 5 VP and win. ???

That said, we played a little…

The Americans climb the hills and skied down the hill and quickly taking one bridge. +1 VP by second turn. The Germans got a good shot and killed the America HS. -1 VP. The Americans found the pillbox overseeing two buildings. +1 VP and only -2 VP for undiscovered pillboxes (a 2VP swing). Turn three. (There are only so many locations that pillbox can be located…but that’s OK).

Now the Americans have 8 VP of units remaining, +1 for pillbox, +1 for bridge, and +1 for killing a German HS = 11 base VP. The Germans have (at this point) -1 VP for killing an American HS, -2 for two pillboxes undiscovered, and -1/2x2=1 VP for HIP units (HS and 8-0) = 4 VP. The Americans, having gotten onto the mountain, turn around and ski down back off the east edge of the board with +4 MF or +6 MF (depending on level two or three when they started). The Germans cannot catch the Americans. The Americans get off board with 11 VP - 4 VP = 7 VP for the easy win.

That said, we had fun with skis and snow. In fact, we got Falling Snow, then Heavy Snow, and even Gusts causing two snow drifts! Check that off the bingo card. Which made it even more difficult for non-ski Germans to do anything to the Americans.

The scenario is designed to experience movement on skis. The Germans must anticipate the best moves to the bridges and set an ambush with two mutually supporting pillboxes. The Pillbox that looks at the village is designed to ambush the Americans rushing for exit. Shooting at a distance is generally not good for the Germans. Killing the Americans while on skis in CC is generally good for the Germans. Thus Ambush.

 

[Kijug]

That's the key--the pillbox CONTENTS are also HIP. I didn't put any units in pillboxes since the units [otherwise] setup onboard concealed as the DEFENDER. That way the American didn't know where the pillboxes would be. We knew the pillboxes were HIP but the units would not be.

Yep, you have to have dudes in the pillboxes HIP. Yes, that would've helped greatly as I know one or two good locations on the west side that would be hard for the Americans to reach.

Thanks, y'all!

 

[Stewart]

SSR 3 is pointless...Fortifications Always setup HIP....
LOS to Fortifications Reveals them.

 

[Stewart]

Yep, you have to have dudes in the pillboxes HIP. Yes, that would've helped greatly as I know one or two good locations on the west side that would be hard for the Americans to reach.

Is this location in the middle of the woods behind some marsh or otherwise difficult terrain..
Sounds like kind of a trollish scenario then and unplaytested.

 

[Danno]

SSR 3 is pointless...Fortifications Always setup HIP....
LOS to Fortifications Reveals them.

Fortifications set up HIP if in concealment terrain. SSR 3 is for how the fortification are revealed. Which happens with LOS in a daylight scenario. In this scenario LOS does not reveal fortification thanks to SSR 3.

 

[Vic Provost]

The concept sounds like fun but also sounds like they needed better wording on what they were trying to portray.

If I run into anything like this, we usually pass on the debate or confusion and do something else, there are 1,000s of other scenarios to play...

 

[Jazz]

Fortifications set up HIP if in concealment terrain. SSR 3 is for how the fortification are revealed. Which happens with LOS in a daylight scenario. In this scenario LOS does not reveal fortification thanks to SSR 3.

Almost, but not quite complete.....

A12.33:" ......Fortifications set up in non-Concealment Terrain are
treated as if set up in Concealment Terrain [EXC: they also lose their HIP
status due to enemy LOS regardless of range] ..."