Question on Amphibians and LCs

[PabloGS]

Preparing for Red Bloody Beach, so questions obviously pop up. Just want to make sure my rationale is right below:

G13.43 states that all water between a reef and the Beach is considered shallow-Ocean.

G13.431 states as an EXC that LC may not enter a Submerged reef, but may beach on one of its hexsides.

G12.21 states that when a LC enters a shallow-Ocean hex while becoming closer to the beach that is within three hexes of the shallow-Ocean hex must roll for Aground, before DFF and before Beaching attempts.

Therefore, as long as the reef is further away than 3 hexes from the Beach a LC that runs into it can Beach safely without risking becoming Aground?

A couple others:

G13.3 state that beach sand is like desert sand. Thus if soft a Vehicle must roll for Bog upon entering.

D16.3 state that amphibians need to check for bog in waterline hexes when moving from a water obstacle to land hex. But shallow Ocean is not a Water Obstacle and therefore amphibians only check for Bog once when moving into the beach?

And given that amphibians are very small targets only when traversing Water Obstacles, when they start wading over the reef they are regular size, correct?

I do have also a couple of observations on Greg Dahl's article from VFTT. Is he active still? Any opinions on his piece with the acompanying flowchart on LC to hit process?

Thanks!

 

[nekengren2]

And given that amphibians are very small targets only when traversing Water Obstacles, when they start wading over the reef they are regular size, correct?

Yeah the rules on Amphibians as targets in Shallow Water seem..................missing.

13.42 says treat all Wading units as in Shallow Stream with no Depression. Which is basically Open Ground.

So by the rules............Amphibians are normal open ground targets. Seems off to me since Amphibians crossing River or Canal would be small targets and HD per D16.3. Rivers are deeper than shallow Oceans? I guess. I'm going with open ground targets.

I'm also assuming the Amphibians can Fire with no penalty. hmmm. Maybe just hit the Reef and start firing with the Amphibians with MA to Smoke the Mortars instead of spending 4 more turns just to get on the Beach. Those Jap mortars could tear apart those OT Amphibians.

Also 13.422 says COT for Amphibians is 1MP. So if I'm using Shallow Stream rules which is 2+COT for FT then my Amphibians would be 3MP per hex. Which of course can't be right for Bloody Red Beach since they won't make it to the Beach by end of Scenario. I'm going with 1MP per hex.

 

[Doug Leslie]

And given that amphibians are very small targets only when traversing Water Obstacles, when they start wading over the reef they are regular size, correct?

Yeah the rules on Amphibians as targets in Shallow Water seem..................missing.

13.42 says treat all Wading units as in Shallow Stream with no Depression. Which is basically Open Ground.

So by the rules............Amphibians are normal open ground targets. Seems off to me since Amphibians crossing River or Canal would be small targets and HD per D16.3. Rivers are deeper than shallow Oceans? I guess. I'm going with open ground targets.

I'm also assuming the Amphibians can Fire with no penalty. hmmm. Maybe just hit the Reef and start firing with the Amphibians with MA to Smoke the Mortars instead of spending 4 more turns just to get on the Beach. Those Jap mortars could tear apart those OT Amphibians.

Also 13.422 says COT for Amphibians is 1MP. So if I'm using Shallow Stream rules which is 2+COT for FT then my Amphibians would be 3MP per hex. Which of course can't be right for Bloody Red Beach since they won't make it to the Beach by end of Scenario. I'm going with 1MP per hex.

What kind of MP are you using? Most LVTs have 12 plus MP, so can usually move four hexes per MPh in shallow ocean. The scenario is ten turns long, so they can easily reach the beach by the end.

 

[Doug Leslie]

Preparing for Red Bloody Beach, so questions obviously pop up. Just want to make sure my rationale is right below:

G13.43 states that all water between a reef and the Beach is considered shallow-Ocean.

G13.431 states as an EXC that LC may not enter a Submerged reef, but may beach on one of its hexsides.

G12.21 states that when a LC enters a shallow-Ocean hex while becoming closer to the beach that is within three hexes of the shallow-Ocean hex must roll for Aground, before DFF and before Beaching attempts.

Therefore, as long as the reef is further away than 3 hexes from the Beach a LC that runs into it can Beach safely without risking becoming Aground?

A couple others:

G13.3 state that beach sand is like desert sand. Thus if soft a Vehicle must roll for Bog upon entering.

D16.3 state that amphibians need to check for bog in waterline hexes when moving from a water obstacle to land hex. But shallow Ocean is not a Water Obstacle and therefore amphibians only check for Bog once when moving into the beach?

And given that amphibians are very small targets only when traversing Water Obstacles, when they start wading over the reef they are regular size, correct?

I do have also a couple of observations on Greg Dahl's article from VFTT. Is he active still? Any opinions on his piece with the acompanying flowchart on LC to hit process?

Thanks!

Since your LC cannot enter a submerged reef hex, the question of running aground does not arise. The LC beaches across the reef in the same way as if the reef were a beach hex. Other than that, I think that you are good to go!

 

[nekengren2]

What kind of MP are you using? Most LVTs have 12 plus MP, so can usually move four hexes per MPh in shallow ocean. The scenario is ten turns long, so they can easily reach the beach by the end.

ah ok. yes i guess they don't use ocean movement in Shallow Water. Completely spaced that. just trying to GROK this stuff.

 

[Doug Leslie]

Preparing for Red Bloody Beach, so questions obviously pop up. Just want to make sure my rationale is right below:

G13.43 states that all water between a reef and the Beach is considered shallow-Ocean.

G13.431 states as an EXC that LC may not enter a Submerged reef, but may beach on one of its hexsides.

G12.21 states that when a LC enters a shallow-Ocean hex while becoming closer to the beach that is within three hexes of the shallow-Ocean hex must roll for Aground, before DFF and before Beaching attempts.

Therefore, as long as the reef is further away than 3 hexes from the Beach a LC that runs into it can Beach safely without risking becoming Aground?

A couple others:

G13.3 state that beach sand is like desert sand. Thus if soft a Vehicle must roll for Bog upon entering.

D16.3 state that amphibians need to check for bog in waterline hexes when moving from a water obstacle to land hex. But shallow Ocean is not a Water Obstacle and therefore amphibians only check for Bog once when moving into the beach?

And given that amphibians are very small targets only when traversing Water Obstacles, when they start wading over the reef they are regular size, correct?

I do have also a couple of observations on Greg Dahl's article from VFTT. Is he active still? Any opinions on his piece with the acompanying flowchart on LC to hit process?

Thanks!

I should add as an aside that vehicles have to check for bog when entering a beach hex regardless of whether the sand is hard or soft. The chance of bogging in hard sand is however reduced due to the sand being treated as if EC were wet or mud per the F7 table.

 

[PabloGS]

Thank guys! Game is come and gone though LOL.