Modding Classic TOAW Scenarios

[parmenio]

Having recently gone through the Sicily 43 scenario from the Classic TOAW folder as Allied v. Axis PO, I am looking for some pointers in beefing up the PO's performance. I ended the scenario around Turn 18 (of 42) with an Overwhelming Victory - Patton, I'm afraid, got nowhere near winning the race for Messina. Instead I left the U.S 7th Army as the shield and used the 8th Army as the sword primarily because there was no PO withdrawal (or shift of focus) east once the attack on Gela failed.

Looking at a scenario dump, I can see that the HG Panzer Division has attack orders with Objective 1 as Gela. I'm guessing that it will continue to attempt to take that objective "for ever and a day" regardless. Would that assumption be correct? My conclusion is that I should provide alternative objective tracks triggered by one or more events. Would that assumption also be correct?

I also plan to look at Crusader 41 for the same reason. Last time I played that one (Commonwealth v. Axis PO) , I did the historical offensive with Tobruk as the goal. This time round I did a hook up to the coast against Bardia and Sollum. The PO ignored everything I did and carried on pounding Tobruk - again I'm assuming multiple objective tracks would help.

Any info (or links to any useful threads) much appreciated.

 

[Veers]

Having recently gone through the Sicily 43 scenario from the Classic TOAW folder as Allied v. Axis PO, I am looking for some pointers in beefing up the PO's performance. I ended the scenario around Turn 18 (of 42) with an Overwhelming Victory - Patton, I'm afraid, got nowhere near winning the race for Messina. Instead I left the U.S 7th Army as the shield and used the 8th Army as the sword primarily because there was no PO withdrawal (or shift of focus) east once the attack on Gela failed.

Looking at a scenario dump, I can see that the HG Panzer Division has attack orders with Objective 1 as Gela. I'm guessing that it will continue to attempt to take that objective "for ever and a day" regardless. Would that assumption be correct? My conclusion is that I should provide alternative objective tracks triggered by one or more events. Would that assumption also be correct?

I also plan to look at Crusader 41 for the same reason. Last time I played that one (Commonwealth v. Axis PO) , I did the historical offensive with Tobruk as the goal. This time round I did a hook up to the coast against Bardia and Sollum. The PO ignored everything I did and carried on pounding Tobruk - again I'm assuming multiple objective tracks would help.

Any info (or links to any useful threads) much appreciated.

Consult Silvain (Silvanski), he probably knows Elmer better than anyone other than Ralph (possibly better than Ralph).

 

[parmenio]

Consult Silvain (Silvanski), he probably knows Elmer better than anyone other than Ralph (possibly better than Ralph).

Ok - with a bit of luck he'll be along at some point...

 

[Veers]

Ok - with a bit of luck he'll be along at some point...

Oh he will be, Elmer questions tend to attract him. :laugh:

 

[Silvanski]

someone calling me?:toilet: :laugh::laugh::laugh:

to beef up the PO, alternative objective tracks are a must.. either set to switch on a given turn, or triggered by one or multiple occupation events depending on the scope and size of the scenario

to increase Elmer's defensive capability it may be a good idea to set some overlapping tracks.. to make Elmer defend a key objective better you could assign an additional formation to that particular hex or adjacent hexes, helpful in case you obliterate a bunch of units of one formation... experimenting is the key... also try something like a non-sequencial objective track instead of a straight
1---2---3---4 path
1---2---4---3 with the 3rd objective ahead of the 4th may see Elmer react sooner and swifter in the defense...
also useful is to see how a formation acts under screen instead of defend orders

hope this helps... provided time I'll maybe look into the mentioned scenarios

 

[parmenio]

someone calling me?:toilet: :laugh::laugh::laugh:
.....
hope this helps... provided time I'll maybe look into the mentioned scenarios

Thanks - that's a great help. Crusader 41 is less of a problem for me, I think. I can provide an alternative "Attack" orders track for certain of Rommel's formations based on an "occupation" event.

Sicily, however, I am less certain of. After failure at Gela, the best of the Axis troops (HG et. al.) moved West to the Catania plain and blocked the Commonwealth advance. I can see that an initial "Attack" track with a limited set of objectives should then be switched based on an occupation event probably triggered by the Commonwealth forces. I was assuming that I should produce a "Defend" track but seeing your post (and reading the manual) I think maybe a "Screen" track would be better - allowing the Axis troops to fall back to Catania and conduct some form of delaying strategy....

...anyway - food for thought.

 

[ogar]

A bit OT from the scenario design, but Parmenio mentioned the Classic Sicily scenario. I also had problems with this -- gave up after Elmer repeatedly sent 15 PZGr to drift endlessly in lighters off Gela and Licata.

Then I found Marc Custer's Bitter Victory (WWII, Med.) -- a big rewrite; more to do (sea/air transport, etc) but also Elmer is much better. Elmer pulled back 4 hexes from the shore around Gela/Licata after the 2nd day, as though having the entire Med fleet lined up for shelling made a difference. So ... I'd recommend looking at the dump from this scenario for compare and contrast. It does seem to make much more use of the enhancements in III than the Classic ones, which were written to an older model.

Oh, and a big, big thank you to all of you for your postings. They really help this noob in understanding the game, and its subtleties.

 

[parmenio]

A bit OT from the scenario design, but Parmenio mentioned the Classic Sicily scenario. I also had problems with this -- gave up after Elmer repeatedly sent 15 PZGr to drift endlessly in lighters off Gela and Licata.

Yes. I'd forgotten that

Then I found Marc Custer's Bitter Victory (WWII, Med.) -- a big rewrite; more to do (sea/air transport, etc) but also Elmer is much better. Elmer pulled back 4 hexes from the shore around Gela/Licata after the 2nd day, as though having the entire Med fleet lined up for shelling made a difference. So ... I'd recommend looking at the dump from this scenario for compare and contrast. It does seem to make much more use of the enhancements in III than the Classic ones, which were written to an older model.

I had taken a brief look but I was sure it was marked for PBEM.

 

[ogar]

Sonuvagun, you're correct - it is flagged for PBEM only. Well, I did announce myself as a noob, and now it's confirmed. That said, the PO is playing better than most of the POs I have played against so far -- and I aint doing too bad as the Allies.

Anyway, it was a suggestion on where to look for ideas and models. Good luck with your scenario efforts.

 

[sPzAbt653]

You might also want to try breaking down some of the formations. For example, HG Pz Div could be 2 or 3 formations, maybe this would provide better coverage.

 

[Erik Nygaard]

Yes. I'd forgotten that



I had taken a brief look but I was sure it was marked for PBEM.

The 'PBEM only' is probably due to Marc using Theatre Options wich the PO/Elmer do not take. Or there may be house-rules.
If you're brave you can add events to the TOs that active them say a random 50% (and without Victory Point costs to help Elmer a bit). Remember to check subsequent events that they point correctly to other events, units etc. I have done this with my own scenarios and it works fairly well.

 

[parmenio]

The 'PBEM only' is probably due to Marc using Theatre Options wich the PO/Elmer do not take. Or there may be house-rules.
If you're brave you can add events to the TOs that active them say a random 50% (and without Victory Point costs to help Elmer a bit).

Yes. A quick look at the scenario briefing show that there appear to be a number of house rules and TOs. I'll play through "Bitter Victory" first before deciding which one to mod.

Thanks to all for the help and suggestions.