LLMC on Surrender attempt

[Mister T]

The prisoner section of the ARLRB is far from being clear in many respects. I very much doubt that the drafters had the llmc situation in mind when they used such non-indexed wording. Ok, there is a reasoning behind Justiciar's argument but i find it casuistic.
Bottom line is that a leader has been eliminated ("and any other cause") and this triggers the LLMC provisions, whether the leader has been gunned down at the beginning of his surrendering, during his run or in the hands of the enemy, it doesn't matter because surrender involves no movement (they avoid shells, mines, etc.).
If a leader were to eliminated by FtR, LLMC would also kick in.
Anyway, a Q&A would be the way to go to settle the issue.

 

[Justiciar]

The prisoner section of the ARLRB is far from being clear in many respects.

This can be applied to many sections of ASLRB. This does not hold water.

I very much doubt that the drafters had the llmc situation in mind when they used such non-indexed wording.

So you can read the designers mind's? There are other words which are non-Indexed. And plenty of words which do not need to BE Indexed b/c like captor they fully imply in any language. I cannot render these words into French for you. But I am sure you see that one cannot be a member of the Bastille without being IN the Bastille. SVP?

Ok, there is a reasoning behind Justiciar's argument but i find it casuistic.

The reason my argument has cause (which is the word I think you mean) is because it has cause. That is merit. Cogiito Ergo Sum. QED.

Bottom line is that a leader has been eliminated ("and any other cause") and this triggers the LLMC provisions, whether the leader has been gunned down at the beginning of his surrendering, during his run or in the hands of the enemy, it doesn't matter because surrender involves no movement (they avoid shells, mines, etc.).

Incorrect. The LLMC is only triggered by "in the same Location" (A10.2) I already proved that the "in the same location" is the enemy CAPTOR's hex. If you have played otherwise and this upsets you. Alas welcome to ASL. It is not a unique occurrence. I am still trying to come to grips with the alternate FL attacking on exit a unit that got hit on entry...but there it is...

QUOTE="Mister T, post: 1864637, member: 10712"] If a leader were to eliminated by FtR, LLMC would also kick in.[/QUOTE]

I fully agree here LLMC would apply the leader died in the friendly unit's location. The leader NEVER surrendered to become the possession of a CAPTOR! And the died in an INSTANT of its CAPTURE.

Please people read the words they have meaning.

 

[von Marwitz]

Had that same situation come up just now. Alas no conclusive result in this thread.
I will file a Perry Sez on it.

von Marwitz

 

[von Marwitz]

Sent the following 'Perry-Sez' request:

LLMC after Declaration of No Quarter (A10.2, A20.3, A20.21)

An enemy squad of lower morale than its accompanying Leader are in a Location ADJACENT to a Good Order known friendly infantry unit. The enemy Leader is broken and must Surrender to the ADJACENT Good Order known friendly unit which does now declare No Quarter.

Is the broken enemy Leader a) eliminated in its current Location - thus causing a LLMC on the accompanying enemy squad or b) eliminated in the Location of the friendly unit that declared No Quarter?

von Marwitz

 

[Aavar]

Elimination in the index quotes S17.32 - granted this is the solitaire campaign - 17.32 ELIMINATED : Each Directly Attached FRIENDLY unit removed by any other means ( e.g. CC, KIA, K/#, Failure to rout. Commissar rally (A25.222), Capture...

This is as close to a definition for eliminated/elimination that I can find in the ASLRB.

 

[von Marwitz]

Answer is in from Perry:

Question:

LLMC after Declaration of No Quarter (A10.2, A20.3, A20.21)
An enemy squad of lower morale than its accompanying Leader are in a Location ADJACENT to a Good Order known friendly infantry unit. The enemy Leader is broken and must Surrender to the ADJACENT Good Order known friendly unit which does now declare No Quarter.

Is the broken enemy Leader a) eliminated in its current Location - thus causing a LLMC on the accompanying enemy squad or b) eliminated in the Location of the friendly unit that declared No Quarter?

Answer:

a).

....Perry
MMP