Kinship Contest

Michael Dorosh

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The LOTRO 2nd Anniversary Celebration continues! The time has come to band together for power, glory, and fantastic prizes! Join a kinship, create a new kinship, or invite new characters to your existing kinship, then level up to win. With 3 ways to win on each world, numbers bring fun, adventure, and the fellowship of the best gamers in Middle-earth.

WHAT IS THE LOTRO KINSHIP CONTEST?
The contest is a leveling race. The kinships that level up the most and the fastest will win! Starting at noon EDT on May 21 and running through noon EDT on June 15, every new character created is tracked in a special database.

HOW DOES IT WORK?
New characters earn points for their kinship by gaining levels, and you can follow your kinship's progress via a new leaderboard in the Lorebook. Only characters added to a kinship after the contest has begun can earn points.

Players will need to create new characters or recruit friends to join their kinship's adventure in Middle-earth in order to earn points - existing characters do not count toward the point totals. Points will only be awarded to the first kinship a character joins during the promotion - choose wisely.

WHO CAN WIN?
The Kinship Contest runs on all servers, and each will have its own winners. There are multiple ways of winning:

The kinship with the most points overall for each game world
The kinship with the most points per member for each game world
The kinship containing the single top character in each server world (based on total points gained by that member and how fast they are achieved in the event of a tie)

The One Kinship to Rule Them All - The kinship with the most points overall across all servers

WHAT IS THE PRIZE?
The winning kinships will receive pre-payment for its Kinship Hall for up to a year! Don't have a kin hall yet? We'll give your kin a Kinship House and pay the upkeep for 6 months!

PLUS - The one kinship that earns the most points across all servers will receive a special badge for their my.lotro.com page to let everyone know that they are The One Kinship to Rule Them All.
Don't belong to any kinships - had thought of starting my own, just to have a title under my name, but after checking the wikis, it seems you need at least 8 members within the first 24 hours or you get deleted - the manual does not mention that little detail!

I thought EVENDIM SWIM CLUB was the perfect name. :mad:

Ah well. Anyone belong to a kinship that is participating and would like a couple of characters to add to their totals? I can be bribed. :D
 
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Palantir

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I posted this on my Kinship forum- easier to copy & paste then retype!
http://kbtw.servegame.com/

PART ONE: My take

The developers have to be kidding. Sad

Turbines "One Kinship to Rule them All" contest is complete nonsense and cheapens the whole point of LotRO "fellowships." Creating a contest and a reward for getting the most "new" characters power-leveled in a kin is disheartening (it sure won't generate new players just a ton of pointless alts).

When I read the title I thought, "cool, they're going to have something for Kinships to work TOGETHER on." But instead it's a competition pitting Kins against each other or a, "My kin is better than yours" mentality. I'm sure this does wonders for small Kin's & their players morale.


I keep beating the please don't follow in "WoW's" footsteps dead horse: having Kins "battle" each other is just a poor Alliance vs. Horde path & does nothing to encourage or promote players in different Kins to help each other = why help him on that quest & level when it may hurt my Kin in the contest?

I could create and have a Kin with 35 new "characters" in 1 hour just from my family who plays, but what the HECK does that prove? Just put 5 new characters on "follow" and let your 60th wander thru Ered Luin leveling them up in his wake...

This does not encourage playing, it simply encourages players to rush as fast a they can past everything the developers worked hard on to make this a "great" game as fast as they can.
Hmmm, more players at higher levels = more who may buy the higher lvl expansions $$$, nice.

Poor idea Turbine & no clue why this was created.
 
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Palantir

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Part 2,
answering some other player comments about this issue:

Quote on May 20, 2009, 08:37:42 am
Question: Why would they redo these areas if their intent was to "speed people through them"? End Quote
Probably because the actual designers (who enjoy their game) aren't the same people as the "PR" guys (who enjoy getting $$ for the company).

Quote
I think I read somewhere they are planning to polish the Bree-land areas in Book 8. End Quote
They are also taking players back into Moria for more quests.

Quote
Because Turbine believes this is a replayable game. They want people to enjoy their 2nd and 3rd times through the game. End Quote
I agree I certainly did, but telling people to "power-level" your way through SoA as fast as you can to get as high as you can for made up "points" in my book does not encourage anyone to enjoy the game as intended.

Quote
It is REALLY REALLY hard to have events for such disparrate levels in the kinship. End Quote
I think you are wrong here, Kings is what a Kinship IS supposed to be like, players at ALL levels so there is someone to quest with at your @level. If everyone was 60 why start a new alt, if everyone was 10 why play much as you will out level everyone.


Quote
I see this event as Turbine inviting kinships to recapture some of the magic they had at launch. They are saying, we've redone some of the areas and made it a more polished experience. We're inviting you to experience it all over again with your friends. End Quote
Disagree here. making it a leveling race "contest" is not what they originally designed it for. But adding new quest & content for only appropriate levels (low areas) would make players want to start again to experience the area properly. Adding upper content to SoA would be great and something I hope they are looking into.

Quote
I'm disappointed we have such a low impression of our fellow players. I've found most people I interact with to be quite nice and reasonable in this game. End Quote
The PLAYERS are great, they didn't say "hey we want a leveling race between kinships" that was decided by whomever at Turbine. I wanted "stage coaches" for more player interactions.

I mentioned before that my wife & I worked all the way up to 60th with the goal of us always being at the same level, I hit 60th only 30K ahead of her & that's out of over 5 million points. I was online playing Deryni all the time (Az only a few hours a week) & had to be consciously aware to NOT get exp & not level. Yet- I had a blast running around in the game and interacting with other players. leveling together can be done, but you really have to plan it out.
 
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Michael Dorosh

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Such passion!

Interesting points; obviously hadn't given it much thought. I've done almost all my questing solo, with some fellowship quests done temporarily and on a whim, so I have no dog in the fight. You do make some excellent points.


I posted this on my Kinship forum- easier to copy & paste then retype!
http://kbtw.servegame.com/

PART ONE: My take

The developers have to be kidding. Sad

Turbines "One Kinship to Rule them All" contest is complete nonsense and cheapens the whole point of LotRO "fellowships." Creating a contest and a reward for getting the most "new" characters power-leveled in a kin is disheartening (it sure won't generate new players just a ton of pointless alts).

When I read the title I thought, "cool, they're going to have something for Kinships to work TOGETHER on." But instead it's a competition pitting Kins against each other or a, "My kin is better than yours" mentality. I'm sure this does wonders for small Kin's & their players morale.

I keep beating the please don't follow in "WoW's" footsteps dead horse: having Kins "battle" each other is just a poor Alliance vs. Horde path & does nothing to encourage or promote players in different Kins to help each other = why help him on that quest & level when it may hurt my Kin in the contest?

I could create and have a Kin with 35 new "characters" in 1 hour just from my family who plays, but what the HECK does that prove? Just put 5 new characters on "follow" and let your 60th wander thru Ered Luin leveling them up in his wake...

This does not encourage playing, it simply encourages players to rush as fast a they can past everything the developers worked hard on to make this a "great" game as fast as they can.
Hmmm, more players at higher levels = more who may buy the higher lvl expansions $$$, nice.

Poor idea Turbine & no clue why this was created.
 

Michael Dorosh

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So here's my question to you, Palantir - if you were a Turbine exec faced with wanting to get more people to buy Moria (I presume this is the prompt for this??) - how would you boot people in the ass to start levelling up in Shadows of Angmar and getting into Moria?

Personally, I only have one character I'm happy with, hovering at level 38, and I'm in no rush to get to Moria. Having said that, I did at least part with my cash for the expansion. Others may not have.

They may have erred - as they did with Combat Mission :D - in being too content rich out the gate...do you think? I mean, making the basic game too replayable, that people are like me - in no rush to get to Moria and are just replaying the first game, so now they need to do this?
 

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Excellent points Palantir, and a good question MD, I personally have no answer for that.
 

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Hi,
{First of all you need to understand that I'm a LotR nut, so staying as TRUE as possible to Tolkiens work is #1 for me. But I also accept that you have to make the game PLAYABLE repeatedly... :hush:}


Anyway rambling on- the question could be expounded way out there to how BFC treated their CMx1 customers when CMx2 came out- "You (customers) are idiots for still liking & playing CMx1, it was a horrible game (even though it was great & we were proud of it- then), we now know what you REALLY want, it's CMx2 (Moria) so BUY IT & forget about CMx1. :freak:

Thankfully Turbine is not taking this route (killing the original game & making a completely new "engine") but, it happens in every game of this type with expansions. The new stuff is flashier, advanced and the designers want you to buy it because they need the $$ to keep advancing the game. And will do what they need to do see that accomplished.

The expansions should stand on their own really, the players who have the original & like it WILL buy the expansions & tell their friends: especially in LotRO because everyone knows it's a long expansion pathway to Mordor.

In my not so humble opinion players should have to start in SoA & work their way up & into each expansion (like they do now). To do this & keep it fresh for players in the "original" areas Turbine has to reinvigorate the low level quest areas. They can change the "side quests" add new ones and put in new low level items, start new story lines etc. They certainly don't need to speed you through it.


BFC: to suck in new players changed the entire engine because players "complained" X1 was old, we need to get with the times... Forget the fact that CMx1 game was still being played & just needed updated not killed off.


Turbine is turning to look down this path announcing that soon they will be giving ALL players a "Swift Route" mount travel ability because the world is so big and they want players to SEE everything. From Bree to Minas Tirith in just 20 seconds. What the? :crosseye: I thought playing the game was how you "saw" everything.

That in no way is how LotR was envisioned that everyone just pop around as they please. {I have the Hunters "Guide" skill, not thrilled that they added this & wouldn't care if they deleted it. However it is one of the only things that makes the hunters class worth something and distinguishes it from other DPS classes.} Using this "skill" Aragorn should have just popped to Mt Doom & dropped in the Ring or had an Eagle drop it in- some thrilling story there! Middle Earth is supposed to be BIG, and it takes time to travel: it has real distances unlike WoW which is set in all of 20 miles (based on walking times). I want to see them expand the distance x2 at least not cutting it by 10(?) as Turbine did.

But here's what I fear will happen in LotRO- new players will whine & complain- "I don't want to have to start in Ered Luin/Breeland at level 1 then work to level 60 to see Lothlorien/South Mirkwood- whatever. So, not only will Turbine give you fast movement it will also create a "special" bonus event/action that jumps players to Lvl 60/70 etc. so they can start in Rohan/Gondor. (Sound sort of familiar to what WoW did with the Deathknights starting at lvl 55 in the expansion Lich King...) Jumping players to higher levels is a sure way to get new players, (why do all that old boring stuff anyway) and to kill off the original game.

The fast pace way Turbine is tossing out new expansions, while nice, is not for the average common LotRO gamer (an "older" player who has a real life) but for the hardcore 24/7 younger players. Your average player as MD pointed out is still "wandering" their way through the game towards Moria enjoying the game as it was designed. I don't know when my 60th will actually get into Lothlorien yet.

I agree that it's almost as if Turbine designed the game so rich for us, the LotR fans, that they then realized they did such a good job on SoA that we're now in no hurry to leave. With all the experience bonuses, fast movement etc they are now trying to "shoo" us out the SoA door & into Moria & beyond. One thing that is holding that up is all the RP'ing players & Kinships, it takes a lot of time to role-play your way through all of Middle Earth.

They may regret selling so many lifetime memberships.
 
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Michael Dorosh

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Lifetime memberships...I was going to stop you after para three or so and say "hey, they can just make their money on the monthly fees, right" but I guess you just hit it on the head with that last sentence. :D

Lots of other stuff to respond here but I think I need a meal first. :-/
 

Michael Dorosh

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Hi,
{First of all you need to understand that I'm a LotR nut, so staying as TRUE as possible to Tolkiens work is #1 for me. But I also accept that you have to make the game PLAYABLE repeatedly... :hush:}


Anyway rambling on- the question could be expounded way out there to how BFC treated their CMx1 customers when CMx2 came out- "You (customers) are idiots for still liking & playing CMx1, it was a horrible game (even though it was great & we were proud of it- then), we now know what you REALLY want, it's CMx2 (Moria) so BUY IT & forget about CMx1. :freak:

Thankfully Turbine is not taking this route (killing the original game & making a completely new "engine") but, it happens in every game of this type with expansions. The new stuff is flashier, advanced and the designers want you to buy it because they need the $$ to keep advancing the game. And will do what they need to do see that accomplished.
True.

The expansions should stand on their own really, the players who have the original & like it WILL buy the expansions & tell their friends: especially in LotRO because everyone knows it's a long expansion pathway to Mordor.
I think my point in one of the other threads is probably apt, though - the work-up time to making the expansions content-rich enough to really pull people away is going to be tough - especially if they are already mesmerized by the world they already have to play around in, that is eminently replayable.

In my not so humble opinion players should have to start in SoA & work their way up & into each expansion (like they do now). To do this & keep it fresh for players in the "original" areas Turbine has to reinvigorate the low level quest areas. They can change the "side quests" add new ones and put in new low level items, start new story lines etc. They certainly don't need to speed you through it.
What did Spock say to Kirk - is it possible you and I have grown so old and inflexible, etc...

I agree with you, but I wonder if we are 'correct' in thinking this?

I've always thought it was a shame that so many quests in Ered Luin are locked out because it is such a cool area - ditto Thorin's Hall. I wonder if user-made additions wouldn't be a solution - if vetted and programmed by Turbine but submitted by we the users, even if nothing in outline form. But this does nothing to boost Turbine's sales, and we're looking at things from the consumer standpoint - and they really do need to "sell" this thing. It comes back to those pesky lifetime memberships again. Maybe they need to sell "expansion quest packs" - those additional quests for Ered Luin, etc., maybe they need to be something we pay for. I don't know what that would taste like for the average consumer.

BFC: to suck in new players changed the entire engine because players "complained" X1 was old, we need to get with the times... Forget the fact that CMx1 game was still being played & just needed updated not killed off.
I don't know that BFC did this so much in response to their fanbase (they've never really been as responsive to the fanbase as they pretended - and only when it suited them) but as much simply to grab at a larger, new fanbase for the same base reasons that you are ascribing to Turbine. But, they are all in the business of business - without money, they stop producing - no way around it.

Turbine is turning to look down this path announcing that soon they will be giving ALL players a "Swift Route" mount travel ability because the world is so big and they want players to SEE everything. From Bree to Minas Tirith in just 20 seconds. What the? :crosseye: I thought playing the game was how you "saw" everything.
Dumb move, agreed, but again, this is dumbing things down to whiners who will quit before the next expansion comes out. I guess we still have it in our power to play the game we want to, but I agree that it loses something - for some unfathomable reason - knowing that so many others are levelling up and doing things that should be hard. There is a tacit competition in the world - why have a MMO at all if there wasn't. I feel a smug satisfaction in cruising past a Level 19 hunter on my horse, knowing I "worked" hard to get up to level 35 and saving my money and knowing how envious I was of the dudes riding past me as I plodded along the Great East Road on foot. It's a status symbol of sorts. If Turbine decided next that they wanted to keep more customers by giving everyone a horse at level 5 - it would really lose something.

That in no way is how LotR was envisioned that everyone just pop around as they please. {I have the Hunters "Guide" skill, not thrilled that they added this & wouldn't care if they deleted it. However it is one of the only things that makes the hunters class worth something and distinguishes it from other DPS classes.} Using this "skill" Aragorn should have just popped to Mt Doom & dropped in the Ring or had an Eagle drop it in- some thrilling story there! Middle Earth is supposed to be BIG, and it takes time to travel: it has real distances unlike WoW which is set in all of 20 miles (based on walking times). I want to see them expand the distance x2 at least not cutting it by 10(?) as Turbine did.
I didn't realize Hunters were the only ones with this skill. I have guide skills to several major locations, and a whole stash of Travelling Rations in my pack. But I still usually just travel by horse, mostly because I am a miser when it comes to buying stuff, but because I also enjoy the scenery. And it gives me a chance to collect rhubarb on the way. :laugh:

But here's what I fear will happen in LotRO- new players will whine & complain- "I don't want to have to start in Ered Luin/Breeland at level 1 then work to level 60 to see Lothlorien/South Mirkwood- whatever. So, not only will Turbine give you fast movement it will also create a "special" bonus event/action that jumps players to Lvl 60/70 etc. so they can start in Rohan/Gondor. (Sound sort of familiar to what WoW did with the Deathknights starting at lvl 55 in the expansion Lich King...) Jumping players to higher levels is a sure way to get new players, (why do all that old boring stuff anyway) and to kill off the original game.

The fast pace way Turbine is tossing out new expansions, while nice, is not for the average common LotRO gamer (an "older" player who has a real life) but for the hardcore 24/7 younger players. Your average player as MD pointed out is still "wandering" their way through the game towards Moria enjoying the game as it was designed. I don't know when my 60th will actually get into Lothlorien yet.

I agree that it's almost as if Turbine designed the game so rich for us, the LotR fans, that they then realized they did such a good job on SoA that we're now in no hurry to leave. With all the experience bonuses, fast movement etc they are now trying to "shoo" us out the SoA door & into Moria & beyond. One thing that is holding that up is all the RP'ing players & Kinships, it takes a lot of time to role-play your way through all of Middle Earth.

They may regret selling so many lifetime memberships.
Still have to agree with the last here. The marketing dudes seem to be backtracking. I hope this all doesn't mean flagging sales. But then, I kind of hope it does mean that. Because if it isn't poor sales, but just some dipwad at Turbine artificially trying to inflate sales for no reason, I don't see a future for the game system. Forget Mordor, we'll never get to Minas Tirith - and that is something I really would love to see.
 

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I've always thought it was a shame that so many quests in Ered Luin are locked out because it is such a cool area - ditto Thorin's Hall. .
Agreed.

There is a tacit competition in the world - why have a MMO at all if there wasn't... It's a status symbol of sorts...it would really lose something..
Yes exactly- why else would Turbine be having a "One Kinship to Rule them All" contest. In the game you according to the "rules" you "work" hard & put in real time to get the rewards they offer, if everyone just gets handed them later it comes down to "what was the point" in game for doing them for the older players? [/QUOTE]

I didn't realize Hunters were the only ones with this skill.
Oh other classes do have the "solo jump" ability, but Hunters are the only ones who can do it with a group. Once again Turbine weakened the Hunter by giving this ability to other classes.

Going off course here:
Hunters had 3 main duties
1. was to do max DPS on single targets, or "nuke" them.
2. Jump to other locations with other players in tow.
3. Traps / track targets. (either or)
In the last few expansions/upgrade Hunters DPS were weakened 20-30% and it cost even more to do it. 2. They gave the "jump" ability to other classes.

I was surprised that looking around at various forums when groups are listing the "recommended" classes to include in doing certain instances the hunter is not on the lists while multiples of others are. This is because Rune Keepers / Champs / Wardens can now do just about equal or more DPS than the top flight Hunters AND have their own special skills to help out the party. Turbine has really cut the hunter class down to nearly an afterthought, as it has no real "technical" role in the game now, except as a taxi. The idea of being "unique" & doing the highest DPS (take one target down at a time fast) has been weakened- lots of classes can now do the same thing & more.

However, the Hunter is fun to play nonetheless- I have 2, what's saving the Hunter's behind is most LotRO players don't play the numbers game. I certainly didn't know before hand how much the Hunter had been weakened because I just played the game & had fun & didn't watch numbers (gear) that closely. But when I saw "my" class not mentioned as being wanted in quests I looked to see why, and found out. Fortunately there are plenty of Kinships out there that don't care for number tracking either & just say, "come along lets have fun win or lose."

Because if it isn't poor sales, but just some dipwad at Turbine artificially trying to inflate sales for no reason, I don't see a future for the game system. Forget Mordor, we'll never get to Minas Tirith - and that is something I really would love to see.
I read they have the LotR rights until 2017 and that they have a good road map planned out for the expansions getting to Mordor before then. But I am a little concerned about their ability to generate more money (without hitting me up for more) and stay true to LotR. The expansions might become smaller even. If they do hold the line Turbine won't lose their base, maybe some casual players & servers but keep enough to keep them going. If they can keep the game impressive & get their license extend beyond 2017 they will have the rest of Middle Earth to expand into (YAY!!).
 
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