Japanese HIP as Night Scenario Attacker?

[DVexile]

E1.41 CONTENTS: The Scenario Attacker’s Infantry (only) always starts the scenario in the form of Cloaking counters [EXC: Aerial landings].

G1.631 HIP: ...In a night scenario the Japanese player may always use HIP for ≤ 25% of his MMC squad-equivalents that set up onboard, even if he is not the Scenario Defender...

So in a night scenario that defines the Japanese as the Scenario Attacker by SSR, despite starting on board, what's the story with HIP? Could the Japanese setup some of their forces HIP and thus use more of their Cloaking counters as dummies? Or does the E1.41 language trump G1.631 (despite E1.41 being lower numbered) and mean all the Japanese must setup as Cloaked and thus none as HIP? Both rules use the word "always" but it seems both can't be true at the same time when there is an SSR defined on-board Scenario Attacker who is Japanese.

Weird edge case and couldn't find any existing Q&A.

Thanks for any help!

 

[Doug Leslie]

As a general rule (per E1.411), cloaked counters always enter from offboard. It therefore follows that the situation is unlikely to arise barring a SSR stating that the Japanese set up cloaked units onboard. In that event, the SSR should make it clear what is to happen with regard to G1.631.

 

[DVexile]

In that event, the SSR should make it clear what is to happen with regard to G1.631.

Unfortunately it doesn't. (HC3 Samurai Sunset from Rising Sun)

EDIT: Actually it does, see below!

 

[klasmalmstrom]

SSR 2:
"Despite setting up onboard, the Japanese are the Scenario Attacker and may use Cloaking."

It says they may use Cloaking. So I think that G1.631 applies normally.

Though it looks to me the Japanese will be moving in this one....

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Japanse:
Elements of 3rd Company, 1st Battalion, 4th Infantry Regiment [ELR: 3]
set up in Crest status in the LL29-XX24 gully: {SAN: 2}

Relevant part of SSR 2 quoted above.

 

[DVexile]

Thanks Klas! I just needed an extra pair of eyes to tell me what was staring me in the face the whole time. Indeed, "may" in the SSR is telling. I guess they can do HIP if they wish. Doug had it correct from the start, but I just didn't read the SSR carefully enough.

As you point out though, since the whole point is for them to move, I'm not sure HIP would be a sensible thing to do. Cloaking is probably far more useful due to its movement benefits than any sort of HIP head fake that would probably only last through part of the first MPh.

 

[EagleIV]

I remember playing a game where I was attacking with the Japanese and I HIP'd a platoon. At the end of the first Japanese MPh as I was moving the last few squads (on board) my opponent was shooting anything at them (I was giving him some -1,-2 shots just to draw fire). Then the HIP platoon popped up and went running forward without getting shot at since everyone had already first fired and had someone else closer. Had he realized I had 3 squads and a leader HIP he probably wouldn't have taken a lot of the shots at the last few other units.
Although in a night scenario the advantages of cloaking may out way the advantage of not getting shot at while moving into position on the first turn.

 

[DVexile]

Although in a night scenario the advantages of cloaking may out way the advantage of not getting shot at while moving into position on the first turn.

Yeah, my thought was that at night the way cloaking counters work creates an even greater fog of war, making it hard for an opponent to count squads unless they successfully strip cloaking from nearly everything. So having the last few squads suddenly appear after all the cloaking counters have moved could be particularly surprising. Still, whether that would be useful depends a whole lot on the specifics of the scenario!

 

[Paul John]

I remember playing a game

I was on the receiving end of this trick once and will never forget it. In my case, he banzai charged into my final fired hexes forcing FPF and my dudes all broke.