Importing Rules from Historicity and Realism Project (H&R) to Austerlitz Scenarios

[SeriousCat]

Napoleonic Battles: Austerlitz has a mod called Historicity and Realism Project (H&R), but the mod only covers the following battles:

• 1805, Amstettin
• 1805, Austerlitz
• 1805, Ulm
• 1809, Abensberg
• 1812, Borodino

The mod uses the following unmodified files and folders from the vanilla game:

• Media
• Music
• CPA.exe
• nwedit.exe

The mod introduces the files under the following file types:

• .btl (Battle)
• .btt (Battle)
• .map (Map)
• .oob (Order of Battle)
• .pdt (Parameter Data)
• .scn (Scenario)
• .dat (Data)

Of particular interest is the "weapon.dat" file, which presumably includes the modified weapon values, and the "battle.btl" and "battle.btt" files, which contain a long list of numbers, but without any indication of what they represent. However, I don't know whether there are any other modifications to the game mechanics nor where they are located. Using "nwedit.exe" to examine the H&R scenarios, there doesn't seem to be any additional AI scripts.

How can I import the rules and mechanics (e.g. mathematical values, scripts, etc.) from the mod into the other scenarios from the vanilla game? How do I modify each scenario's units' characteristics?

The manual for "nwedit.exe" (i.e. "nwedit.pdf") doesn't explain it very well.

EDIT:

After reading a debate on the historical realism of the mod (Napoleonic Wargaming Club), there are several instances that imply that the ".scn" (i.e. scenario) files are where the majority of changes are made. Using "nwedit.exe" to view the ".scn" files, I can see that I can edit the starting strength, position, formation and fatigue levels of units. However, I can not find how to edit a unit's characteristics (e.g. firepower, charge multiplier, morale).

Investigating the menus in "nwedit.exe", under the following directory (Help > Parameter Data) there seems to be a wealth of information regarding unit characteristics (e.g. firepower, charge multiplier, morale), but I'm not sure whether this is the place where it is actually edited. When trying to change the values and exiting the dialog window, the values are not saved.

Upon close examination, almost all the mods contents changes in the mechanics are concentrated entirely around the scenario (i.e. ".scn"), order of battle (i.e. ".oob") and parameter details (i.e. ".pdt") files, however there seems to be no way to edit the parameter details from within "nwedit.exe". For example, opening "H&R 1.03 1805 Austerlitz #1.pdt" with a text editor gives the following garbled text. The values are sure to represent very important characteristics, but there are no headers or labels to indicate what they are.

13
Battle of Austerlitz
1
7 0 18 0 0 1
10 30
900 64 3 4 1 2 25
5 1 500 500 4
1 1 3 3 5 5 8 8 12 12
1 1 1 900 0 5
16 23 16 16
0 0 0 0 0
6 4 4 4 6
0 0 0 0 0
10 8 12 16 16
8 6 8 12 12
10 10 16 0 0
6 4 4 4 6
6 4 4 4 6
8 4 8 8 8
8 6 12 0 0
7 5 6 6 8
0 4 4 4 4
0 3 3 3 3
0 2 2 2 2
0 0 0 0 0
3 2 4 5 5
0 0 0 0 0
4 4 8 8 8
4 4 8 8 8
4 4 8 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 4 4 4 4
12 10 16 0 0
2 2 2 4 4
2 2 2
2 2 2
0
12 1 1
3 3
A 1 11 2 9 3 7 4 5 5 4 7 3 10 2 13 1 16 1 -1
B 1 10 2 8 3 6 5 3 7 2 13 1 -1
C 1 10 2 8 3 5 4 3 7 2 13 1 -1
D 1 11 2 9 3 7 4 5 5 4 7 3 10 2 13 1 16 1 -1
E 1 10 2 8 3 5 4 3 7 2 13 1 -1
F 1 9 2 7 3 4 6 2 7 1 10 1 -1
G 1 7 2 5 3 3 5 2 8 1 -1
H+ 1 12 2 8 3 4 7 3 9 2 13 1 -1
I 1 11 2 9 3 7 4 5 5 4 7 3 10 2 13 1 16 1 -1
J+ 1 12 2 8 3 4 7 3 9 2 13 1 -1
K 1 10 2 8 3 5 4 3 7 2 13 1 -1
M 1 5 2 1 -1
N 1 11 2 9 3 7 4 5 5 4 7 3 10 2 13 1 16 1 -1
O 1 10 2 8 3 5 4 3 7 2 13 1 -1
Q 1 3 -1
R 1 4 2 2 3 1 -1
T 1 4 2 1 -1
U+ 1 12 2 9 3 7 4 4 7 3 10 2 14 1 -1
V 1 10 2 8 3 6 5 3 7 2 13 1 -1
W 1 10 2 8 3 5 4 3 7 2 13 1 -1
X 1 9 2 7 3 4 6 2 7 1 10 1 -1
Y 1 10 2 8 3 6 5 3 7 2 13 1 -1
Z 1 7 2 5 3 3 5 2 8 1 -1
a 1 6 2 2 -1
b+ 1 11 2 7 3 5 7 3 9 2 13 1 -1
c+ 1 11 2 7 3 4 5 3 8 2 13 1 -1
d 1 3 2 1 -1
r 1 0 2 0 3 3 8 2 12 1 -1
$
20 20 10
0 0 0 -30 -10 -5 -25 -40 -25 -15 0
0 0 0 0 -10 0 -10 -20 -10 -30 -30 -20
-10
100 7 2 9 3 1 7 2 9 3 1
100 0 0 40 15 0 10 20 20 0 0 5
6 1 -10
1
8 8
3 3
8 45
11 6
0
1 1805 12 2 7 0 100 2 100 100 100 -60 0 Dawn/Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 7 10 100 3 100 100 100 -60 0 Dawn/Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 7 20 100 4 100 100 100 -60 0 Dawn/Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 7 30 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Dawn/Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 7 40 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Dawn/Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 7 50 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 8 0 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 8 10 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 8 20 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 8 30 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 8 40 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 9 0 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 9 10 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 9 20 100 10 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Overcast
1 1805 12 2 9 30 100 15 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Overcast
1 1805 12 2 9 40 100 20 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Overcast
1 1805 12 2 10 0 100 25 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Overcast
1 1805 12 2 10 30 60 30 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Overcast
1 1805 12 2 11 0 80 30 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Overcast
1 1805 12 2 12 0 60 40 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Overcast
1 1805 12 2 13 0 33 48 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Overcast
1 1805 12 2 14 0 80 52 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Overcast
1 1805 12 2 15 0 40 40 100 100 90 -60 0 Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 15 30 55 40 100 100 90 -60 0 Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 16 0 60 36 100 100 90 -60 0 Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 16 10 60 36 100 100 90 -60 0 Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 16 20 75 38 100 100 90 -60 0 Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 16 30 80 28 100 100 90 -60 0 Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 17 0 100 19 100 100 90 -60 0 Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 17 10 100 12 100 100 90 -60 0 Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 17 20 100 8 100 100 90 -60 0 Dusk/Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 17 30 100 6 100 100 90 -60 0 Dusk/Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 17 40 100 4 100 100 100 -60 0 Dusk/Overcast
1 1805 12 2 17 50 100 2 100 100 100 -60 0 Dusk/Overcast
1 1805 12 2 18 0 100 1 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 18 10 100 1 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 18 20 100 1 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 18 30 100 1 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 18 40 100 1 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 18 50 100 1 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 19 0 100 1 100 100 100 -60 0 Fog
1 1805 12 2 20 0 30 1 100 100 90 -60 0 Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 21 0 100 1 100 100 100 -60 0 Fog
1 1805 12 2 23 0 100 1 100 100 100 -60 0 Fog
0
9
3
20 23


The mod requires the following Optional Rules to be enabled at the beginning of every scenario, however I can not seem to find any way to permanently enable these settings regardless of scenario.

• Victory Points for Leader Casualties
• Isolation Rules
• Melee Terrain Modifiers
• Target Density Modifier
• No Retreat Overruns
• Weak Zone of Control
• Line Movement Restriction
• No Opportunity Fire Against Skirmishers
• No Melee Eliminations

 

[TheGrayMouser]

Re: Importing Rules from Historicity and Realism Project (H&R) to Austerlitz Scenario

Napoleonic Battles: Austerlitz has a mod called Historicity and Realism Project (H&R), but the mod only covers the following battles:

• 1805, Amstettin
• 1805, Austerlitz
• 1805, Ulm
• 1809, Abensberg
• 1812, Borodino

The mod uses the following unmodified files and folders from the vanilla game:

• Media
• Music
• CPA.exe
• nwedit.exe

The mod introduces the files under the following file types:

• .btl (Battle)
• .btt (Battle)
• .map (Map)
• .oob (Order of Battle)
• .pdt (Parameter Data)
• .scn (Scenario)
• .dat (Data)

Of particular interest is the "weapon.dat" file, which presumably includes the modified weapon values, and the "battle.btl" and "battle.btt" files, which contain a long list of numbers, but without any indication of what they represent. However, I don't know whether there are any other modifications to the game mechanics nor where they are located. Using "nwedit.exe" to examine the H&R scenarios, there doesn't seem to be any additional AI scripts.

How can I import the rules and mechanics (e.g. mathematical values, scripts, etc.) from the mod into the other scenarios from the vanilla game? How do I modify each scenario's units' characteristics?

The manual for "nwedit.exe" (i.e. "nwedit.pdf") doesn't explain it very well.

EDIT:

After reading a debate on the historical realism of the mod (Napoleonic Wargaming Club), there are several instances that imply that the ".scn" (i.e. scenario) files are where the majority of changes are made. Using "nwedit.exe" to view the ".scn" files, I can see that I can edit the starting strength, position, formation and fatigue levels of units. However, I can not find how to edit a unit's characteristics (e.g. firepower, charge multiplier, morale).

Investigating the menus in "nwedit.exe", under the following directory (Help > Parameter Data) there seems to be a wealth of information regarding unit characteristics (e.g. firepower, charge multiplier, morale), but I'm not sure whether this is the place where it is actually edited. When trying to change the values and exiting the dialog window, the values are not saved.

Upon close examination, almost all the mods contents changes in the mechanics are concentrated entirely around the scenario (i.e. ".scn"), order of battle (i.e. ".oob") and parameter details (i.e. ".pdt") files, however there seems to be no way to edit the parameter details from within "nwedit.exe". For example, opening "H&R 1.03 1805 Austerlitz #1.pdt" with a text editor gives the following garbled text. The values are sure to represent very important characteristics, but there are no headers or labels to indicate what they are.

13
Battle of Austerlitz
1
7 0 18 0 0 1
10 30
900 64 3 4 1 2 25
5 1 500 500 4
1 1 3 3 5 5 8 8 12 12
1 1 1 900 0 5
16 23 16 16
0 0 0 0 0
6 4 4 4 6
0 0 0 0 0
10 8 12 16 16
8 6 8 12 12
10 10 16 0 0
6 4 4 4 6
6 4 4 4 6
8 4 8 8 8
8 6 12 0 0
7 5 6 6 8
0 4 4 4 4
0 3 3 3 3
0 2 2 2 2
0 0 0 0 0
3 2 4 5 5
0 0 0 0 0
4 4 8 8 8
4 4 8 8 8
4 4 8 0 0
0 0 0 0 0
0 4 4 4 4
12 10 16 0 0
2 2 2 4 4
2 2 2
2 2 2
0
12 1 1
3 3
A 1 11 2 9 3 7 4 5 5 4 7 3 10 2 13 1 16 1 -1
B 1 10 2 8 3 6 5 3 7 2 13 1 -1
C 1 10 2 8 3 5 4 3 7 2 13 1 -1
D 1 11 2 9 3 7 4 5 5 4 7 3 10 2 13 1 16 1 -1
E 1 10 2 8 3 5 4 3 7 2 13 1 -1
F 1 9 2 7 3 4 6 2 7 1 10 1 -1
G 1 7 2 5 3 3 5 2 8 1 -1
H+ 1 12 2 8 3 4 7 3 9 2 13 1 -1
I 1 11 2 9 3 7 4 5 5 4 7 3 10 2 13 1 16 1 -1
J+ 1 12 2 8 3 4 7 3 9 2 13 1 -1
K 1 10 2 8 3 5 4 3 7 2 13 1 -1
M 1 5 2 1 -1
N 1 11 2 9 3 7 4 5 5 4 7 3 10 2 13 1 16 1 -1
O 1 10 2 8 3 5 4 3 7 2 13 1 -1
Q 1 3 -1
R 1 4 2 2 3 1 -1
T 1 4 2 1 -1
U+ 1 12 2 9 3 7 4 4 7 3 10 2 14 1 -1
V 1 10 2 8 3 6 5 3 7 2 13 1 -1
W 1 10 2 8 3 5 4 3 7 2 13 1 -1
X 1 9 2 7 3 4 6 2 7 1 10 1 -1
Y 1 10 2 8 3 6 5 3 7 2 13 1 -1
Z 1 7 2 5 3 3 5 2 8 1 -1
a 1 6 2 2 -1
b+ 1 11 2 7 3 5 7 3 9 2 13 1 -1
c+ 1 11 2 7 3 4 5 3 8 2 13 1 -1
d 1 3 2 1 -1
r 1 0 2 0 3 3 8 2 12 1 -1
$
20 20 10
0 0 0 -30 -10 -5 -25 -40 -25 -15 0
0 0 0 0 -10 0 -10 -20 -10 -30 -30 -20
-10
100 7 2 9 3 1 7 2 9 3 1
100 0 0 40 15 0 10 20 20 0 0 5
6 1 -10
1
8 8
3 3
8 45
11 6
0
1 1805 12 2 7 0 100 2 100 100 100 -60 0 Dawn/Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 7 10 100 3 100 100 100 -60 0 Dawn/Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 7 20 100 4 100 100 100 -60 0 Dawn/Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 7 30 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Dawn/Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 7 40 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Dawn/Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 7 50 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 8 0 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 8 10 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 8 20 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 8 30 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 8 40 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 9 0 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 9 10 100 5 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 9 20 100 10 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Overcast
1 1805 12 2 9 30 100 15 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Overcast
1 1805 12 2 9 40 100 20 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Overcast
1 1805 12 2 10 0 100 25 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Overcast
1 1805 12 2 10 30 60 30 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Overcast
1 1805 12 2 11 0 80 30 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Overcast
1 1805 12 2 12 0 60 40 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Overcast
1 1805 12 2 13 0 33 48 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Overcast
1 1805 12 2 14 0 80 52 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Overcast
1 1805 12 2 15 0 40 40 100 100 90 -60 0 Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 15 30 55 40 100 100 90 -60 0 Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 16 0 60 36 100 100 90 -60 0 Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 16 10 60 36 100 100 90 -60 0 Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 16 20 75 38 100 100 90 -60 0 Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 16 30 80 28 100 100 90 -60 0 Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 17 0 100 19 100 100 90 -60 0 Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 17 10 100 12 100 100 90 -60 0 Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 17 20 100 8 100 100 90 -60 0 Dusk/Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 17 30 100 6 100 100 90 -60 0 Dusk/Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 17 40 100 4 100 100 100 -60 0 Dusk/Overcast
1 1805 12 2 17 50 100 2 100 100 100 -60 0 Dusk/Overcast
1 1805 12 2 18 0 100 1 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 18 10 100 1 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 18 20 100 1 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 18 30 100 1 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 18 40 100 1 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 18 50 100 1 100 100 100 -60 0 Light Fog
1 1805 12 2 19 0 100 1 100 100 100 -60 0 Fog
1 1805 12 2 20 0 30 1 100 100 90 -60 0 Light Snow
1 1805 12 2 21 0 100 1 100 100 100 -60 0 Fog
1 1805 12 2 23 0 100 1 100 100 100 -60 0 Fog
0
9
3
20 23


The mod requires the following Optional Rules to be enabled at the beginning of every scenario, however I can not seem to find any way to permanently enable these settings regardless of scenario.

• Victory Points for Leader Casualties
• Isolation Rules
• Melee Terrain Modifiers
• Target Density Modifier
• No Retreat Overruns
• Weak Zone of Control
• Line Movement Restriction
• No Opportunity Fire Against Skirmishers
• No Melee Eliminations

Hi seriouscat, what you intend to do is going to be a pretty big project but not impossible

ist you need to fully understand what how and why the modders did the things they did. Although I never tried the mod, I was intriuged enough to read all the docs regarding the changes they made. As I recall they documented everything in great detail and these docs should still be available.

So a couple of things:
Optional rules These are the rules the modders indicate need to be used to get the full effects of the mod They should "stick" everytime you load up a scenario, if no that is a tech help question.

The scenario editer: this is used to load up an already made: map, OOB and PDT file . Then you place your units, give them fatigue (very important for this modd), set victory condition, length of time for the scenario and program the AI

OOB and PDT file: this is where the majority of changes are made for the mod These are edited using NOTEPAD


What I suggest you do is "save as" one of the modded PDT'S and a modded OOB which closest resembles the army structures of your new battle. (thus the majority of work will have been done for you)

I really don't believe you will need to do much editing to the PDT if you use one of the modded ones unless you need to add, adjust or delete WEATHER entries.

The OOB is going to be huge amount of work because the mod uses "1/2 battalions" and a regimental structure vs a brigade structure like the stock scenarios.
There should be guides in editing the OOB's and PDTS within the game (usually a word document)

Once you have your PDT and OOB completed you then create a new scenario w the editor, load up those two file and the appropriate map.
One of the critical changes the modders made is cavalry (and possibly infantry??) are all given fatuige and so that is where you would make those changes.

I highly suggest you do not edit by hand the .scn files although maybe its ok...
If you can find the guide for PDT modifying, the PDT structure is quite easy as it s a line by line thing
DATA files: ie weapons.dat YOU do not need to change these things (unless you feel the need to change the spelling of the weapons as displayed in game, all the effects and values for weapons are found in the PDT file (these are the lines that start w A-z, each letter being a weapon. You can open the weapon.dat to see what each weapon is though. (once you start modding enough you'll get to know them by heart!)

Good luck!

 

[SeriousCat]

Re: Importing Rules from Historicity and Realism Project (H&R) to Austerlitz Scenario

The H&R scenarios are very few and I was hoping to introduce the rules set and changes to the OOB to the rest of the scenarios.

So for the ".pdt" file, are you saying I have to edit each value individually using notepad, then load up "nwedit.exe", enter the Parameter Data Dialog window and see what changes? Then I have to try and match those changes to what has been changed in the HRP scenarios?

 

[Sgt_Rock]

Re: Importing Rules from Historicity and Realism Project (H&R) to Austerlitz Scenario

Post was a duplicate - please delete.

 

[Sgt_Rock]

Re: Importing Rules from Historicity and Realism Project (H&R) to Austerlitz Scenario

Hi Cat,

I wanted to first give you a SHORT explanation of the file types in the game. And then point you to folks that can help you out.

First, here is a short list of the types in the game and what they do:

Weapon.dat - this is just a text file that lists the weapons NAMES - these names show up in the INFO area of the UI where you see the units portrait and information. It has nothing to do with modifying the actions of the main program.

.map files - these are map files for the game. All text but you never want to modify these. Well let me take that back. You CAN modify the placenames I found out. I modified the values for the Waterloo large map. You can also modify the size of the text too. I should probably post a guide on how to do this. Just know that any changes you make will probably get overwritten with the next update (or if you have to reinstall the game and then update, etc).

.oob files - these are the data files for the units and organization. They will affect the Main Program - unit weapons values are found in the .pdt file. See my PDF in the Design folder of the Leipzig, Bautzen or 1814 games to see which values are for the weapons. The morale grade and command values were changed in many cases for the H&R project. For instance: a unit that WAS morale 5 is probably now a 3. Those at 4 are probably a 2. Cannot say for sure. It is VERY consistent though and a quick use of a Compare program would highlight the differences. (I do not play H&R but did try it out some time back)

.pdt files - this is where the weapons data is stored. You also will find stacking values, counter density and so on here. Refer to my PDT help file in the Leipzig, Bautzen and 1814 games (Design folder) for detailed info.

.scn files - these files are where you find the initial scenario information. Once the scenario starts the .bte, .btt, .btl or other scenarios file have the information stored for use during the game and the .scn file is no longer used. Thus if you are testing a scenario you can make changes to the .scn file DURING PLAY. You never change these .bte, .btt or .btl files. Same goes for .cpf which is for campaigns.

.btr - this is a replay file. It is structured a bit differently from the .bte and .btt files. You never change this file.

Now as to who to contact. If you go over to the NWC game club you can contact someone at the club from a link on the front page and he will send you the emails of the guys involved. I never post folks emails here. Link to the NWC is as follows:

http://www.wargame.ch/wc/nwc/Napann1.htm

Hope this helps and GOOD LUCK in your work.

 

[Sgt_Rock]

Re: Importing Rules from Historicity and Realism Project (H&R) to Austerlitz Scenario

And here is the link to their site:

http://www.nwc.albom55.ru/hrp/

 

[SeriousCat]

Re: Importing Rules from Historicity and Realism Project (H&R) to Austerlitz Scenario

Accidental double post. Moderator, Please delete.

 

[SeriousCat]

Re: Importing Rules from Historicity and Realism Project (H&R) to Austerlitz Scenario

This may not actually be possible, unless there is a work-around.

I compared the vanilla and H&R versions of the Battle of Ulm (i.e. ".scn", ".oob", ".pdt") using WinMerge. The ".scn" (scenario) files have virtually no points of similarity from which to extrapolate a comparison beyond the first few lines. This is probably due to the fact that the OOB has been written into the scenario. Yet when I compare the ".pdt" (parameter data) and ".oob" (order of battle) files, there are many points of direct comparison and you can guess what most of the changes are and what they mean. The parameter data contains the unit characteristics, so the number of troops and lines has not been altered, merely the values. In contrast, the scenario has a heavily altered OOB, which has different units and therefore additional lines, leaving no similarities for comparison. For the ".oob" and ".pdt" there are abbreviated labels, which is standard in programming, but the ".scn" has no labels and is just a jumbled mass of numbers.

Now I know that "nwedit.exe" can alter the OOB, which can then be written to an ".oob" file. My question is can the process be reversed (i.e. can altering the ".oob" change the ".scn")? My concern is that the ".oob" only has the OOB, whereas the ".scn" has the OOB and geographic positions of units. If I only modify the ".oob" instead of editing the ".scn" directly, I may end up with an OOB that is not fully deployed in battle. Currently, a simple comparison of values means that the H&R rules for unit values can be easily imported into any Napoleonic Battles game, but without the altered OOB the rules will be unrealistic and unbalanced.

 

[SeriousCat]

Re: Importing Rules from Historicity and Realism Project (H&R) to Austerlitz Scenario

Now I know that "nwedit.exe" can alter the OOB, which can then be written to an ".oob" file. My question is can the process be reversed (i.e. can altering the ".oob" change the ".scn")? My concern is that the ".oob" only has the OOB, whereas the ".scn" has the OOB and geographic positions of units. If I only modify the ".oob" instead of editing the ".scn" directly, I may end up with an OOB that is not fully deployed in battle. Currently, a simple comparison of values means that the H&R rules for unit values can be easily imported into any Napoleonic Battles game, but without the altered OOB the rules will be unrealistic and unbalanced.

Can anyone please help? I know it will take a lot of time for me to port H&R, but I've got the time and I really want to do it.

 

[TheGrayMouser]

Re: Importing Rules from Historicity and Realism Project (H&R) to Austerlitz Scenario

Can anyone please help? I know it will take a lot of time for me to port H&R, but I've got the time and I really want to do it.

I think I know what your asking and I think the answer is NO. If I understand correctly, you want to alter the OOB, but in way that doesn't effect the already existing scenario? My experience is SOME properties of units appear to carry over that you edit, other don't. You have a bigger issue though for altering the OOb's to fit the HR format. They generally split ALL the formations up into smaller subunits( example, a stock scenario might have a brigade of 6 battalions with average of 700 men per battalion, the HR conversion is going to have maybe 9 averaging of 415 men each....), so you basically are going to need to set up a brand new scenario using your converted OOB. Also you are basically going to have to redeploy everything anyhow as the initial set up in the stock scen. isn't going to make sense when you have 40% more UNITS on the map.....

 

[Sgt_Rock]

Re: Importing Rules from Historicity and Realism Project (H&R) to Austerlitz Scenario

No, the Scenario Editor does not alter the OB file. Not sure who told you that or where you got the idea. There is an OB editor that Dominik Derwinski built that does edit the OB files or you can use MS Wordpad. I forget the link for that but I am sure I could find it for you if you need it.

The .scn file pulls from the OB, PDT and MAP files. Those files are static and the .scn file does NOT change them in the least. Note: if you alter the strengths of units in an OB file in the middle of a game this will modify the values in the .scn file once you open up the game. For example:

Lets say that the 1/3 Legere has 440 men. You start up a game and they have 440 men in the scenario (full strength). Somewhere around turn 10 you alter the OB file strength for the unit to be lower - lets say 400. When you open up the battle file to do your turn the Legere will now have a LOWER strength.

If you increase the strength of a unit during a game and the unit has NOT lost men what will happen is that the unit will look like it is reduced. The number of men in the .scn file will be used - not the higher amount found in the OB file.

So if you raised the manpower figure from 440 to 500 when you open up your game file the manpower for the Legere will remain at 440 or the last value if they had lost men.

Changing weapons and unit types does affect the game in progress. So if you give a cavalry unit a Lance (L) weapon instead of a Saber (S) then they will have the Lance in your next game file.

Altering values during a Head to Head game is of course cheating unless you and your opponent agree on the change. I do not recommend you changing values in the middle of a game unless you know what you are doing. And never change the files that came with the game. Always make copies of the files.

 

[SeriousCat]

Re: Importing Rules from Historicity and Realism Project (H&R) to Austerlitz Scenario

Thanks for the replies. An additional question regarding the relationship of the SCN to OOB: If I alter the SCN and select the write to OOB option under the follolwing menu path in the Scenario Editor, will that write the changes of the OOB in the scenario to the OOB file?

"File > Write OB Id's to File..."

How about the following as the solution? Since the maps are the same between vanilla and H&R, except for Austerlitz, I can use the same maps and recreate every scenario to have the H&R OOB. To find out what would be the converted OOB moving from vanilla to H&R, I could dig around the H&R SCN and OOB files, as well as look at the notes for the methods and reasoning for the altered OOB from the manual. However, this would mean recreating each scenario individually. Is this doable (i.e. Do you anticipate any difficulties in scenario design)?

PS:
I have a lot of time to spare since I submitted my research proposal. Just spending a lot of time waiting for university approval. I might as well spend it doing something interesting, like this project.

EDIT

It just occurred to me that there are no AI scripts for H&R. If I research the battles themselves, I should be able to find the starting manoeuvres and general strategy for each side. However, I'm concerned about how well the AI will stand up against ahistorical manoeuvres as the battle develops. Does the AI have the ability to adapt, or will they suicidally follow the AI scripts?

 

[Sgt_Rock]

Re: Importing Rules from Historicity and Realism Project (H&R) to Austerlitz Scenario

No, the "Write OBs Id's to file ..." has to do with the ORG number for each unit. When you run that command you get a text file that shows you the ORG numbers. It does not alter the OB file in any way. Useful for campaign ORG files where you want the losses from one ORG to be available for the same units in another ORG number.

I don't follow you on the H&R OB conversion. Just use a text editor to change the values or the OB editor the Dominik Derwinski has put together.

AI will just follow the scripts. It will not learn as it goes along. You can use the Flags instead of the AI scripts if you like. Just takes some getting used to. But the AI makes for a weak opponent regardless.

 

[DEB]

Re: Importing Rules from Historicity and Realism Project (H&R) to Austerlitz Scenario

Hello,

Interesting read this, although I will pass on applying any of it to my games...

I use notepad to edit the OOB and PDT files ( pretty straightforward and copy / cut / paste all easily useable to speed things up ).

Following the OOB information is easy; but the PDT takes some care, as it is not always clear what each item is ( especially as it is NOT in the same order as the Parameter Data details ( as shown in game or in the Scenario Editor ).

NB : The unit strength on the OOB is best taken as the maximum strength of a unit. If you edit it to a lower figure, then the scenario adjusts accordingly and still registers it as at 100% strength. If you edit it upwards, then the scenario will register it as a figure of less than 100% and you will need to edit the scenario itself to correct the units strength up to the revised OOB strength. A large increase can take a while to action using the scenario editor, so you could directly edit the unit on the Scenario file itself ( trace using the units hex number and original unit size - both are listed - the units on the scenario file are listed in hex number order - lowest to highest ).

NBB : I am not sure that editing unit strengths as a game progresses using the scenario editor is possible. The OOB file yes, the BTL file perhaps... That said, I have never done it (and have no wish to try )!

 

[Sgt_Rock]

Re: Importing Rules from Historicity and Realism Project (H&R) to Austerlitz Scenario

The scenario editor CANNOT alter the .oob file in any way shape or form. You CAN reduce the strength of a unit as written to the .scn file and also add in fatigue or even downgrade a leader but there is no way to save the resulting units in the .scn file as its own .oob file. Not sure where you are seeing this.

There is NEVER any quick and dirty way to change these OB files except with something like Notepad++ or Ultra Edit where you can make global changes in the files. For instance if you wanted all L 2 4 leaders to become L 1 3 that is not hard to do.

On the other hand if you want to pick and choose between morale grades for the French Ligne regiments - not easy.

But Ultra Edit or even in Word Pad if you are just changing ONE OB file - well that would work as long as your value are universal for each type of unit & leader.

 

[AlAmos]

Re: Importing Rules from Historicity and Realism Project (H&R) to Austerlitz Scenario

Of course if you wish to alter a unit's strength during a game, you can always engage in combat with it. ;-)

 

[DEB]

Re: Importing Rules from Historicity and Realism Project (H&R) to Austerlitz Scenario

The scenario editor CANNOT alter the .oob file in any way shape or form. You CAN reduce the strength of a unit as written to the .scn file and also add in fatigue or even downgrade a leader but there is no way to save the resulting units in the .scn file as its own .oob file. Not sure where you are seeing this.

I think you misunderstood me. I meant only that editing unit strengths on an OOB as a game progresses was possible; NOT that you could use the Scenario Editor to do it. My text could have been more precise though !

There is NEVER any quick and dirty way to change these OB files except with something like Notepad++ or Ultra Edit where you can make global changes in the files. For instance if you wanted all L 2 4 leaders to become L 1 3 that is not hard to do.

On the other hand if you want to pick and choose between morale grades for the French Ligne regiments - not easy.

I did say I used Notepad, and that I had not used anything else, and that I did not intend to use or try anything else...

But Ultra Edit or even in Word Pad if you are just changing ONE OB file - well that would work as long as your value are universal for each type of unit & leader.

Soo obvious !!!

 

[DEB]

Re: Importing Rules from Historicity and Realism Project (H&R) to Austerlitz Scenario

Of course if you wish to alter a unit's strength during a game, you can always engage in combat with it. ;-)

A rather unpredictable method so far as results go though ! Personally, I have no wish to do any alterations of this nature during a game. I will however admit to amending a battle file where I had erroneously changed a last ( parent ) unit into a Squadron or a Skirmisher, so that I got the Parent unit back !!