Gun movement in Manila

sdennis

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Guns (if they can move at all) can only move <= 3 hexes between scenarios. Is a 81mm MTR a GUN if it is dismanteled? per the index it doesn't look like it because it's not a 5/8 counter when dm.
If it is not a Gun can a dm 81mm MTR be moved wherever you want between scenarios? If not, why not?

If it can move, can it move and than be reassembled (and emplaced) during setup in the next scenario?
 

davegin

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Not sure as I don't have the rules handy, but IMHO, an 81mm MTR is a gun as it is a 5/8" counter. so it can only be manhandled in that form, so max three hexes. If in dismantled state, and represented as a 1/2" counter, it is a SW, and can be moved depending on portage points by infantry. In both cases, once moved from original position, the MTR cannot regain emplacement. Just my take.
 

sdennis

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Dave,
During the refit, if I move it <= 3 hexes per rule it does get concealment and emplacement. I'm not convinced dismantling it will change anything.
 

EagleIV

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CG10 says Guns with no exception for 81mm MTRs. There is an exception for American Guns in Tow at the end of the scenario and while the 81mm can't be Towed, it can be loaded on a vehicle. I would say if it were PRC on a Jeep or something it can be moved more than 3 hexes, but just dming it isn't enough.
 

apbills

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I would look to the particular sequence in the Refit Phase (I don't have the module so can't myself). Usually the Gun movement restrictions of Guns apply during the setup step. (Dis)mantling is usually something sooner in the sequence. Complete speculation, however, if that is the case, a dismantled MTR would be considered dm when you get to the setup step, and since per A9.8 defines such as a SW, it could move anywhere. The trade-off is that it would most likely need to start the next scenario in a dm state. It all depends on what it says you can do as part of the Refit Phase.

Edit: As an aside, in the DYO Campaign rules I am working on this is the step/wording in the Refit Phase.

3.3137 SW/GUN dm/ELIMINATION: At the Controlling player's option, ≥ one SW/Gun in each friendly Setup Area that contains Retained Personnel may be Eliminated/dismantled/assembled for each MMC in that area. A Gun must be assembled at this time in order to be setup Emplaced during the next scenario and must be dismantled at this time in order to be treated as a SW for the purposes of Gun setup restrictions (CG7).
 
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sdennis

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I'm finding little issues like this in Manila...
Once you dm it, it is NOT a gun per the rules (see index).
The CG rule limiting guns talks about GUNS.
In any scenario weapons can start dm or assembled unless restricted, no refit step restricts it so to me rulebook rules.

Is this just something no playtester questions/did?

It could be handled in any manner with a simple sentence or two somewhere but I don't see it anywhere and I've looked because it's going to be an issue in this scenario.

And for the record I would dm it DURING the scenario in the attempt to get around the <= 3 hexes limit. I mean what if I put it back in the halftrack? How does that affect it? ok the CG rule says non-vehicular guns, but my HT is about to depart due to a sniper, so this guy is now like a purchased 81mm MTR...
 

JimWhite

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I asked the same question during our playing of CG V:

How are possessed, dismantled 81mm mortars handled in the Refit Phase?
  1. Are they retained offboard in their dm state?
  2. If #1 is true...must they remain dm for setup purposes anywhere in a legal setup area for the next scenario?
  3. If #2 is false...may they set up assembled and concealed anywhere in a legal setup area?
Per @ASLSARGE in the immediately following post in that thread:
  1. Are they retained offboard in their dm state? Yes
  2. If #1 is true...must they remain dm for setup purposes anywhere in a legal setup area for the next scenario? They begin the next scenario in dm state as that is how they were "received" in the previous RePh.
  3. If #2 is false...may they set up assembled and concealed anywhere in a legal setup area?
 

Eagle4ty

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IMHO it resolves around the usage of the terms "Guns" and "SW". If it exists as a Gun at the end of a CG period, it must be treated as a Gun during the RePh and is thus limited in its placement; If it exists as a SW at the end of a CG period it can be treated as a SW during the RePh and the upcoming placement and start of the next CG period. To do otherwise without further clarification I believe destroys the implied intent of the rule. Just think of it as a game mechanic to somewhat limit the player's options.
 
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