Entrenchings and berserks

[Stewart]

If the Q&A you mean is this one:

A15.43 Must/may a Berserk unit enter an enemy-occupied entrenchment, if it has sufficient MF and the stacking limit is not exceeded, or may/- must it stop when it enters the enemy unit's hex, if that will allow it to engage in CC should both units be present during the CCPh?

A. It's the berserk unit's option. [Letter8]

... then I don't see how that addresses the issue of the 'two Berserk squad-stack and the 1S Foxhole'; the Q&A is about one unit and stipulates that "the stacking limit is not exceeded". In the issue at hand it's about two units zerking as a stack and a FH that has room for only one of them. I'm not saying that it's clear that the "they must move together as one combined stack" means that neither of them can enter the FH: it's just that the rules are not clear at all about this (whatever we would want them to say).

It's a timing/capability concern not a rule violation.
Impulses for HW's are "simultaneous" yet you may move a single unit into an enemy location and allow the other ADJ units run on by. It's a choice..The rules allow units that move together to make different choices, this is a common concept even outside these states of specialty movement.
A mandate has been obtained and their location doesn't change.

 

[Houtje]

It's a timing/capability concern not a rule violation.
Impulses for HW's are "simultaneous" yet you may move a single unit into an enemy location and allow the other ADJ units run on by. It's a choice..The rules allow units that move together to make different choices, this is a common concept even outside these states of specialty movement.
A mandate has been obtained and their location doesn't change.

But the debate is about Berserkers, not HW participants... (so Impulse movement doesn't come into it at all, e.g.).

 

[Doug Leslie]

The berzerk units have done what they needed to do ...Enter an enemy location/hex.
Those units are no longer required to move, yet some May enter the Foxhole.
It's not "leaving the stack" they are in the same location. Just expending MF independent as the entry is permitted.


Some may END their movement...You could argue that when the zerkies break and get eliminated piecemeal...well the eliminated units moved as a part of the stack and can't move any longer..so everyone must stop.

That just silly. They are Berzerk...some can't enter, some can. So, by choice let them enter...and the units outside the FH aren't moving for RES FP purposes and the units.

With collapsed Huts...you could pin some but not all Units...are they all considered Pinned if ONE fails the PTC?

The relevant rule says that berserk units in the same hex must move as one combined stack. It says nothing about that requirement ending once they enter an enemy occupied location. Therefore, if one element of that stack is allowed to enter the foxhole, defensive first fire etc resulting from this will affect the entire stack.

 

[turlusiflu]

I think that entering a hex with an entrenchment is a combined movement of 1+COT, but is a single waste of MF. So, if a stack of berserks enters an open ground hex with a Foxhole 1S, and one of the squads enter the foxhole, the total MF spent for the stack is 2 MF; they are fired upon entering with the first MF, but as the second MF would be part of the "combined movement", they shouldn't be affected by the residual FP

 

[Houtje]

Entering a hex and then entering the Entrenchement in that hex are separate things, so no combined movement (except when Routing). You first enter the hex at COT, and may be fired on, and only then (after the defender doesn't want to (or can't) fire anymore) can you enter the Entrenchment (after which you may be fired on again).

B27.4: "However, Infantry moving beneath an existing foxhole counter or from beneath a foxhole counter must pay one additional MF separately after payment of the COT to enter the hex and after suffering any Defensive First Fire that MF expenditure may have enticed."