Do you consider Risk to be too simplistic?

Rupert

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Obviously there's strategy involved in trying to distribute your armies, properly defend each region without overextending, etc. But actually playing the game is, well, a game of chance. You just roll dice. Really, other than distributing your armies and hoping your enemy doesn't mass troops in Mexico to take Eastern United States, there's just not enough strategy involved.

Really, I've never gotten into warfare-based board games, because until recently I had nobody to play them against (nobody who liked wargames, I mean). Could you recommend some more strategy-oriented board games, perhaps? Thanks in advance.
 
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Originally posted by Rupert
Obviously there's strategy involved in trying to distribute your armies, properly defend each region without overextending, etc. But actually playing the game is, well, a game of chance. You just roll dice. Really, other than distributing your armies and hoping your enemy doesn't mass troops in Mexico to take Eastern United States, there's just not enough strategy involved.

Really, I've never gotten into warfare-based board games, because until recently I had nobody to play them against (nobody who liked wargames, I mean). Could you recommend some more strategy-oriented board games, perhaps? Thanks in advance.
Risk certainly has its limitations, but it is simple enough that it doesn't scare first timers away the way some more complex games might. Castle Risk is a better game, that is somewhat more complex. For example, it adds the ability to have an amphibious assault which makes defense less predictable. It also brings the concept of a capital city(head of command and control) that must be defended.

Despite their limitations I've always enjoyed both games and always found it easier to find other players than with more complex, historically based games. Plus they usually take only 1-2 hours to play.
 

chrisvalla

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I think Risk tries to add the elements of resources (territories of differing value and reinforcements) and luck (dice) to an otherwise pure strategy game (chess or diplomacy - gunboat style). It's the next step up from chess along the scale with chess/checkers/tic-tac-toe on one end (being pure strategy) and 21 on the other using one deck and reshuffling after each hand (being pure luck). It's a 'basic' strategy teacher (like Stratego) for more complex 'beer and nuts' games like Axis and Allies (Shogun, and a host of others) before you 'step up' to Avalon Hill, Victory Games, SSG, and other 'hardcore' games that try to take into account every realistic variable possible (weather, light, supplies, command, line of sight, weapon type, morale, etc.).
 

Gen_Electric

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Here's a game I had a lot of fun with. It has a pegboard and little figures, each with it's own movement or shooting ability. Kinda like chess, but a screen is used to set up and then play begins. An Avalon Hill game no longer published, I think; but you can find them on E-Bay for about $12.
 
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Too simplistic for what? Risk is a great game for people who like that kind of game--and it has spawned a whole genre of Risk-like games (e.g., Supremacy and War: Age of Imperialism).

Does it qualify as a wargame in spite of its simplicity? I think so. It's clearly a game about war, even if it's not fleshed out with a lot of realistic detail.

However, it's not really my cup of tea anymore. I loved it when I was a kid (many years ago); I thought it was the greatest game in the world when I first saw it. But nowadays I dislike multiplayer games for the most part, and I'd rather play something I can sink my imaginative/intellectual teeth into--a game that has more chrome and gives me more to think about and do.
 

ol-wargamer

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Originally posted by Rupert
Could you recommend some more strategy-oriented board games, perhaps? Thanks in advance.
Rupert,

It depends on what your looking for in a game. Do you wish for something with a ton of realism (and complexity), something that is quick and easy to learn and play, or something that will attract more friends to give wargaming a try?

I know the folks here will love to give you a bunch of good advise:D
 

trauth116

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I liked Risk because you could play it drunk ... but that was eons ago in College... the truth is -- Risk is more a dice driven puzzle game than a wargame. . . which doesn't make it any less fun. :toast:

I dunno - though as some people use the term consim to describe the hobby I used to know as wargaming -and me - well I don't see why I should change my definition of it... getting old blows. :banana:
 

trauth116

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Ok a dice driven strategy game, then --- don't get me wrong - I think it is a pretty good game.

I don't know...maybe I am hung up on the simulation angle.
 

tsar

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Originally posted by Gen_Electric
Here's a game I had a lot of fun with. It has a pegboard and little figures, each with it's own movement or shooting ability. Kinda like chess, but a screen is used to set up and then play begins. An Avalon Hill game no longer published, I think; but you can find them on E-Bay for about $12.
Still have this one in my repertoire:toast:
 
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Originally posted by trauth116
I liked Risk because you could play it drunk ... but that was eons ago in College... the truth is -- Risk is more a dice driven puzzle game than a wargame. . . which doesn't make it any less fun. :toast:

I dunno - though as some people use the term consim to describe the hobby I used to know as wargaming -and me - well I don't see why I should change my definition of it... getting old blows. :banana:
So you've played risk for shots too?
 

mentis

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My recommendation

Of course there are lots of strategy games out there, but I think one that might provide a logical progression from Risk to something with more detail (but not too much) is History of the World.

In its current version it even comes with little plastic pieces, a plus if you are not used to lots of little cardboard counters.

I prefer the previous version of the rules, but the current rules do streamline and shorten the game a bit, making it even more accessible to newer gamers.

Here's the details: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=ah/prod/hotw
 

Targetboy

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Risk fails as a Game, not as a War Game

In my opinion, Risk fails as a game. That is, it has several flaws in the game mechanics. (Of course, I think Monopoly is terribly poorly designed as well, so I'm most likely full of crap.)

It has two of my pet peeves: 1) It is generally over long before the game ends and 2) in a 3+ player game it is likely that one player will be eliminated with several hours of game left, and thus be bored.

Given a choice I would always give a potential new wargamer BattleBall before Risk.
 

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My sister reinforced Kamchatka with everything she had....I never could take it....but I always had fun with Weapons & Warriors.
 
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Elsewhere in these forums a differentiation was made between games and simulations. I do not think Risk has "failed" as a game. Its very longevity disproves that theory. However, as a simulation, at any level, it doesn't rank above the lowest. But, that doesn't matter. Even if the game is driven by the dice, like any game, you need to take that variable into play.

I have posted elsewhere today about a game I am currently in with my two oldest sons, 14 and 11. My 14 year old has had his ears hermetically sealed. I can't get anything through to him about planning and strategy. My 11 year old, is much more competitive and is hungry to learn.

I am working with him to think ahead about how he places his armies. I keep reminding him that he must keep the dice in mind when he begins a campaign. I am teaching him about how to use the dice odds in his favor, either as an attacker or a defender.

What Risk can do, is to get new, and even old gamers to think about the big picture. My oldest spent so much time in the game setup preparing to take a particular continent, he neglected the rest of his territories. And what build ups he made there, he wasted by not concentrating in areas where he had a good chance of winning. My 11 year old, on the other hand, was somewhat reactionary to my oldest's buildup, and somewhat neglected his other strengths as well. However, he didn't throw his eggs in one basket. He had a more balanced approach, and as a result, he is still in the game.

They are learning, and are having fun. I will eventually wean them off Risk and move to more substantial games, er, simulations.

Eventually my plan will work, and I will have manufactured my own opponents. No more solitaire.

Game update, 6/21: It took 5 more turns, but I eventually beat my 11 year old to finish our game. He grasped the concepts of resource management, as well as trying to deny me mine. However, he missed the "global" aspect, and kept fogetting the signifigance of the Alaska-Kamchatka link. As a result, he kep plowing from Asia through Europe to take out Greenland to take full continents away from me. He finally got the point that he only needed to take only one territory per continent to deprive his opponent of extra builds. He also learned that he needed to husbandhis forces, so he could provide a defense in depth, to slow his opponents juggernaut each turn.

It was a real see saw battle. He would attack like a wave, take a lot of my territory, but be just shy of denying me one less army each turn. I would respond, regaining my lost ground, and take a few extra, to whittle down is next turns builds. This worked until he was too thin to defend, and I added about 40 armies to go after his 20+ territories. Got him down to Australia. Then put him out of his misery.

Even in defeat he enjoyed the game, though not happy about losing. But, he liked it.
 

tadcar

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bottom line

The bottom line for me is: simple or complex is not the issue. The point is enjoyment, companionship, and friendship. If a game addresses those components, then there is no reason to criticize it. I have played everything (almost) as complex as Advanced Squad Leader to as simple as Risk and have enjoyed them equally. I am a poor judge of this issue because I am a game collector.
:D
 

Mike Duffy

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Risk is a riot of a game, is simple as hell, and represents not a shred of reality. But then again, same goes for Axis and Allies. And those old Smithsonian games from a few years back.

Mike
 

freightshaker

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I remember in Kuwait we got so tired of playing A&A and Risk that we combined the 2 games. Can't remember what went where but we had alot of House Rules to go along with the mod.
 
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