Do you agree that Combat Mission is the pc's equivalent of the board game Squad leade

[17poundr]

I have been playing Combat Mission2, and am beginning to place it on par of my all time favourite pc game (that being talonsoft's TOAW).
But the more I play (and get beaten by the computer, wich is a good sign... It means I have much to learn)! Combat Mission2, I start to get the feeling that finally a game that comes closest to the Avalon Hill boardgame classic named Squad Leader, and it's follow up Cross of Iron, have finally got a worthy standard bearer in the pc world.
I did enjoy steel panthers to a limit, but got fed up with the ultimate goal seeming to be 'kill all enemy forces' at the end of the game.
I enjoyed Close Combat very much, CC3 was the best balanced for both infantry and tanks, and CC4 (the Ardennes) was the best for tank warfare, It was especially demanding when playing the allies with such wonders as Jagdpanthers (totally indestructible from frontal attack of any kind) showing up!
Still Combat Mission somehow gives that 'thrill', I find it hard to describe, that the Avalon Hill game gave, it gave the feeling of being in a company.
Do you agree, if not what are your favourite tactical games and why?
yours truly, mr poundr.

 

[Wodin]

I played the CM series (except cmak) and really enjoyed it. However my all time favourites are the close combat series and finally I have found the game that for me beats both and thats The Squad Battles series. PBEM mode is superb and for me a far better experience than both CM and (I cant believe Im about to say this) close combat series.

However Im am waiting for CMX but I do hope thay dont mess the system up and make concentrate to hard on the graphics and not enough on the gameplay. I do blieve the CM series needs a big face lift and what would really make it shine for me is to have all the men graphically represented. As they went to the trouble of 3d for realism then lets make it look real and not abstract. Judging by the press reports of the new engine Im a little worried bout the lack of info on anything but the graphics.

So in conclusion SB is the game for me which has similarities to ASL.

 

[17poundr]

Thanks

I played the CM series (except cmak) and really enjoyed it. However my all time favourites are the close combat series and finally I have found the game that for me beats both and thats The Squad Battles series. PBEM mode is superb and for me a far better experience than both CM and (I cant believe Im about to say this) close combat series.

However Im am waiting for CMX but I do hope thay dont mess the system up and make concentrate to hard on the graphics and not enough on the gameplay. I do blieve the CM series needs a big face lift and what would really make it shine for me is to have all the men graphically represented. As they went to the trouble of 3d for realism then lets make it look real and not abstract. Judging by the press reports of the new engine Im a little worried bout the lack of info on anything but the graphics.

So in conclusion SB is the game for me which has similarities to ASL.

Hi Wodin, may I say I like your avatar! Being half British, I always like to see some lime in my tea!
Say, has this squad battle series been out for long? I have to admit that appart from close combat until I stumbled upon (well it was the review in the ACG mag that made me get it) CM2 I was pretty much only into TOAW, have you tried it, it's a very good strategy game, in the mold of the old Avalon Hill hex based games, but the pc does all the counting! With loads of scenarios, based on the most famous battles (well many of them) and also some interesting 'what if's'...
I agree on the graphics, but always put realism before them, ofcourse if the figures look like safety pins I shut the pc off!

So could you please tell me what this CMX is all about?
Yours truly mr poundr.
p.s. when I get my bin fixed (Im writin off my backup laptop, games a no no, but hopefully very soon that will be fixed).
would you like to pbm maybe Combat Command2 or TOAW if you have it?
P.S.
Welcome to these pages, I recon you will enjoy, the historical debates are interesting too.
If you are a monty fan, you can dig out the long lasting debate about why the us hated monty so much, it had some good points. (like I posted it as my first thread, and it grew many pages long!).
Poundr.

 

[Full Monty]

Frankly, I detested 'Squad Leader'. To me, 'Combat Mission' is the tabletop wargame I always wanted to play but could never find the opponent for

n.b. I'm not saying SL is a bad game, it just never 'worked' for me.

 

[17poundr]

Frankly, I detested 'Squad Leader'. To me, 'Combat Mission' is the tabletop wargame I always wanted to play but could never find the opponent for

n.b. I'm not saying SL is a bad game, it just never 'worked' for me.

I can believe that, the rules just kept on piling up, to the point that me (the poor bloke who had to translate all of that rule mass)!
And the others agreed to play on the simple basic rules, and improvise with the more complex stuff.
But now when the pc does all the counting, well hey, thats just fine with me!

 

[KG_Norad]

Combat Mission HQ!

Clicking the Combat Mission HQ link in my signature with take you to WarfareHQ's Combat Mission Section. There is also a Combat Mission forum.
http://www.war-forums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=5

You can also play it on W.A.R.S.

I love Combat Mission. I think it is a very engrossing tactical game. While there are some graphics facelifts it could use...these have mostly been taken care of by modders. It has hands down the most robust scenario design tools I have seen. What I mean by this is stability...I have downloaded approx 1200 scenario's for this game and it has never choked on one of them...the way West Front and East Front do. Great price for the games too.

I enjoy Squad Battles too, it is an excellent game but you can not maneuver much in it and it does not model armor very well. I handles it well enough for the infantry support role it is used for in squad battles...but not well for staging armore-centric battles. It is a solid system that has been out for some time though, and is a quality product.

CM models armor and infantry very well. (my opinion) I also like the fact that is does only show 3 men in a squad, as it keeps the screen from getting too cluttered and makes keeping track of your units easier.

CMX is the next generation engine that Battlefront is developing for Combat Mission. It is making progress but I do not think it will be out anytime real soon.

So Which CM game do you have? Barbarossa to Berlin?

 

[17poundr]

Clicking the Combat Mission HQ link in my signature with take you to WarfareHQ's Combat Mission Section. There is also a Combat Mission forum.
http://www.war-forums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=5

You can also play it on W.A.R.S.

I love Combat Mission. I think it is a very engrossing tactical game. While there are some graphics facelifts it could use...these have mostly been taken care of by modders. It has hands down the most robust scenario design tools I have seen. What I mean by this is stability...I have downloaded approx 1200 scenario's for this game and it has never choked on one of them...the way West Front and East Front do. Great price for the games too.

I enjoy Squad Battles too, it is an excellent game but you can not maneuver much in it and it does not model armor very well. I handles it well enough for the infantry support role it is used for in squad battles...but not well for staging armore-centric battles. It is a solid system that has been out for some time though, and is a quality product.

CM models armor and infantry very well. (my opinion) I also like the fact that is does only show 3 men in a squad, as it keeps the screen from getting too cluttered and makes keeping track of your units easier.

CMX is the next generation engine that Battlefront is developing for Combat Mission. It is making progress but I do not think it will be out anytime real soon.

So Which CM game do you have? Barbarossa to Berlin?

I have Combat Mission2 Barbarossa to Berlin, I have sort of had sort of learners, where I give myself more points than the opponent, make up the forces at random, and make the enemy probe, but being the impatient fool that I am, I start to move my tanks around, and suddenly there is a lound 'krak' from a treeline,and my sturmgeschutz is on fire!

I have decided to learn how to use Soviet equiptment.
As I like playing 42 on the easternt front, somehow, I like it when the 'monster tanks have not appeared yet, it gives the infantry a more important role, and I want to learn tactics, that was the idea in Avalon Hills board game Squad Leader, and I believe that is the idea on Combat Mission too.

I'll click on your link, are you in the 5'th acg battalion? I'm in the b company (mainly toaw) but have been told to feel free to play Sturmovik against any opponent i find , and hopefully Combat Mission Barbarossa to Berlin!
Mrpoundr.

 

[BigMik1]

I would say Close Combat was closer to SL and ASL, than CM. I must add I love the CM series tons more that SL and ASL. There are SO MANY RULES for SL and in CM the computer takes care of it and I am free to plan and fight. I have played the CM series longer than I played the CC series and SL and ASL. I have PBEM pals that I have been playing for years.

BigMik1

 

[17poundr]

I would say Close Combat was closer to SL and ASL, than CM. I must add I love the CM series tons more that SL and ASL. There are SO MANY RULES for SL and in CM the computer takes care of it and I am free to plan and fight. I have played the CM series longer than I played the CC series and SL and ASL. I have PBEM pals that I have been playing for years.

BigMik1

I agree fully, when I still played Squad Leader, we always stuck to the basic rules, and if forced to recocnize a wounded leader, improvised a consensus emergency rule.
The game was just playable with the first editions Rules, Cross of Iron already started to have too much micro management that took away all the fun!
Having said that, if there is a pc doing all those tables and counting ect, I'm totally for it!

 

[Patrocles]

I would say Close Combat was closer to SL and ASL, than CM. I must add I love the CM series tons more that SL and ASL. There are SO MANY RULES for SL and in CM the computer takes care of it and I am free to plan and fight. I have played the CM series longer than I played the CC series and SL and ASL. I have PBEM pals that I have been playing for years.

BigMik1

ditto! I have/had a love-hate relationship with ASL. The game is fun for its details and opponent comraderie (sp), but the GD rules can be a real drag at times.

Now I can play CMBB and not hassle with the all the specific rules (and therefore get beaten in less time by the AI or my opponent! )

 

[Juno]

No. But they are both damned fine games.

 

[Mephisto]

CM and SL are closer than you think

Here's a bit of info nobody's mentioned yet:

The game we know as Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord, had originally started development as a PC version of Squad Leader for Avalon Hill. I'm not sure about the details as to why it never made it to the market as Squad Leader - there are rumors that the Avalon Hill guys didn't like it and dropped the project - also it happened right around the time that Hasbro bought out Avalon Hill.

Regardless of the reason it was dropped, Big Time Software knew they had a winner on their hands, and continued to develop the game, renaming it Combat Mission.

So, yeah, I agree that CM is the PC's equivalent of SL.

 

[Patrocles]

Here's a bit of info nobody's mentioned yet:

The game we know as Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord, had originally started development as a PC version of Squad Leader for Avalon Hill. I'm not sure about the details as to why it never made it to the market as Squad Leader - there are rumors that the Avalon Hill guys didn't like it and dropped the project - also it happened right around the time that Hasbro bought out Avalon Hill.

Regardless of the reason it was dropped, Big Time Software knew they had a winner on their hands, and continued to develop the game, renaming it Combat Mission.

So, yeah, I agree that CM is the PC's equivalent of SL.

fascinating detail! do you (or anyone else here) know the reasons AH did not like the developing CM game? did Hasbro have a voice in this decision?

 

[17poundr]

ditto! I have/had a love-hate relationship with ASL. The game is fun for its details and opponent comraderie (sp), but the GD rules can be a real drag at times.

Now I can play CMBB and not hassle with the all the specific rules (and therefore get beaten in less time by the AI or my opponent! )

Please give the full name of this CMBB, it sound interesting.

 

[Mephisto]

CMBB stands for Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin.

I believe that in Europe, CMBB was named Combat Mission 2.

 

[17poundr]

CMBB stands for Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin.

I believe that in Europe, CMBB was named Combat Mission 2.

Correct it is Called Combat Mission2.
And as i see so many kindred souls, my pc is renewed for combat tomorrow on the fourth of the 11'th month, and I would love to have a pbm, game!.
you will find my e-mail in my personal info (I hope if not, I'll be happy to game, just pm me) I have agreed to battle doc sinsiter, but am afraid he wont be gentle with my virgin pbm froces.
So any gentlemen who would be considerant toward my learning forces, I look forward to playing!

 

[BigMik1]

Combat Mission Afrika Korps is the better game. I love that many of the scenario designers are redesigning their CMBO missions into CMAK remakes.

BigMik1

 

[BigMik1]

Here's a bit of info nobody's mentioned yet:

The game we know as Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord, had originally started development as a PC version of Squad Leader for Avalon Hill. I'm not sure about the details as to why it never made it to the market as Squad Leader - there are rumors that the Avalon Hill guys didn't like it and dropped the project - also it happened right around the time that Hasbro bought out Avalon Hill.

Regardless of the reason it was dropped, Big Time Software knew they had a winner on their hands, and continued to develop the game, renaming it Combat Mission.

So, yeah, I agree that CM is the PC's equivalent of SL.

Big Time Software could make a great SL game. If it could come alittle close to the CM series.......wow what a thought!!!

BigMik1