CMBB - poor demo scenarios

[Scipio]

posted September 08, 2002 10:12 AM
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Well, after one week with the demo I have cooled down a bit. If I compare the CMBO and CMBB demo scenarios, I must say that the CMBB's start to be boring very fast.

CMBO - 'Chance Encounter' and 'Valey of Trouble' were just good, simple battles with posibilities and lots of action. You just could see what a great game it is from the first moment you've started.

CMBB - Nothing to expect from the tutorial of course, but the two others are just so one-sided and dry.
In 'Citadel' you have nothing to do then see your tanks moving over the steppe as axis, waiting for contact, clobber the enemy, and drive on. There is no tactic needed, you always do the same. As Soviets you sit around, waiting for the Axis tanks to show up, try to make some hits and then sit around for another while. You have (except two tanks) no units you can move around, so in princip is the only challenge to make a good setup.
In 'Yelnia', you just place your troops (as Axis) then sit arround, waiting for the Soviets to attack and hope that the 6 T-34 doesn't clobber all your troops before time. As Soviet, you just move your T-34 in position and kill everything that shows up. The Germans have (historical correct) nearly no chance against the 6 T-34, while it is on the other hand as Soviets a pain to move you infantry around. The unexperienced troops just run away each time someone shots (realitic, okay), so finally you only need to move your T-34 and your regular platoons.

Well, the scenarios are maybe not really bad, but IMO they are just poor publicity. They show us some of the great new graphics, but they give us only a very limited view on the gameplay.
To be true, if I wouldn't be a CM enthusiast already and would base my decission to buy the game on the fun I had with the scenarios in the demo, then I would think three times to buy the game, and possibly would be the answer still 'no'. In CMBO I was just addicted after three turns, and still like to make a match with the demo scenarios sometimes.

Maybe it would be a good idea to add just something that show more bells and whistles. Something with more posibilities, so we can just experiment more with tactics.
Just my five pence.

 

[Jared Ball 286]

I agree with you on this one Scipio. If I wasn't so addicted to the first game, and played the demo for CM2 I would have probably passed on the game. But I know the game has potential. We're just going to have to wait for the full game to come out before we can pass jugement

Hell hath no fury like a CM player scorned for poor level desgin. - Jared Ball 286

 

[KG_Jag]

Unfortunately, Scipio has it just about right. Trying to be objective, I have discounted my somewhat jaded view of the CMBB demo (and it's only the demo) with how great and truely different CMBO was when its demo was released. I am even trying to look past the bug in the CMBB demo (that wasn't part of the CMBO demo or game) that kept locking up my computer. The best I can said about the demo is that it shows off the significant improvement in graphics.

IMO the new demo does not show any great advance in game play. In that sense, it feels more like an add-on. From a marketing perspective, they should have used battles similar to those used in the CMBO demo or the CMBO tutorial.

Nevertheless, I have already ordered the game. I look forward to playing it, albeit a little less so than 10 days ago. Even if it was "just" CMBO taken to the eastern front, I would still have to have it.

 

[Scipio]

Yeah, this is just my thought - we, the old CM addicts, have all preordered anyway, already before the demo was out (at least those in Europe). In the CMBO demos were just more bells and whistles. I remember that I nearly had tears in my eyes when I saw the first barrage in 'Valley of trouble' in the first minutes and felt addicted to the game. I'm just missing such a moment in the CMBB demo.

I posted the same message on the BTC forum, and the only result was that I was crucified and called a whinner. I guess I should better stay at home (here)

 

[KG_Jag]

I saw the barrage you have been taking at the Battlefront forum. I tried to do my small bit to back you up. Actually most of the folks chiming in basically agree with you. It's just the few, the loud and the shrill that don't, and many of them seem to take things very personally.

 

[Jared Ball 286]

CMBO was the first of its kind. At least in my book the first to get the feeling of combat right. So when the demo for the new game came out we already had a thought of what was going to be in it by the feature list and what we knew from the first game. Its just sad that people who never played the game will download the demo play it and not like it, then go and download G.I. Combat demo, like it, and never order CM2. All because the design of these missions don't show the potential of the game.

As for the bug, I haven't had that problem. But more that a few people have chimed in so thats not good

 

[Dr Zaius]

I agree, the scenarios is the demo are not very good. They could have at least included one decent scenario.

 

[Jared Ball 286]

I was always more interested in quick battles anyway.
Untill I see a long campign mode like steel panthers that allows units to get experience over time from battle to battle till the end of the war, I will never be truely happy, but thats an issue with me and scenarios after im done thats it. I want to see what happens to my units next, how they improve over battles. Untill I see that I will probably be playing quick battles most of the time. But once we get some ASL Scenarios made then i'll start playing them.

 

[Sgt_Kelly]

Jared, take a peek at this :

Wreck's Single Player Campaign Rules

I think it needs some work but I like the idea.

 

[Jared Ball 286]

Thats too much work on my part. All I want is a game that can give me that quick fix, which CM does so well but if i want more depth and "Character Development" its there. I want Hitler to give my commander the Knights Cross, I want Ike to give my tank crew a purple heart for being wounded in combat. I want my commander to be implicated in the plot to kill Hitl.....oh wait maybe that is to much. But do you see my point, it's just a bell and whistle but guess what thats what makes it a game and I can dream and only dream of such things.

 

[ArmchairGeneral]

Right on the button Scipio

They are boring aren't they! I thought it was just me!

The 2 demo CMBO scenarios are the most challenging scenarios, for the time frame, that I have played against the AI. I still play them yet occaisionally. The CMBB ones are dull after the first play and have no imagination about them at all. Just the pressure of some deadlines perhaps?

I've also pre-ordered and I'm hoping that I haven't made a mistake if this is the standard of the gameplay that I can expect.

 

[Jared Ball 286]

I would have bought the game if all it came with was a quick battle generator. Thats where the replay comes from

 

[Scipio]

Agreed. Quick battles are just the best to play.

 

[Cheetah772]

CMBB demo?

Hello everybody!

I just tried out CMBB demo, and it does lack the excitement of CMBO demo scenarios.

However, somebody said that in Cithadel scenario that playing as Soviets, the game ended up as one-sided as Germans had tanks to counter the inferior Soviet defenses.

This may be true, but I have just played as Soviets without knowing what kind of Germans would launch their tank offensive on me. The result was that I won the game with a minor victory. Actually I would have won a major victory except that the Germans managed to capture the flag at crossroads (I think). The Germans only had one tank left, an intact one that is.

Germans had one immobilized by my antitank crews. Another tank had its main gun damaged, thus rendered useless except as an effective rolling armored machine gun platform. Germans had 11 tanks either destroyed or abandoned!

On my side, I had two tanks knocked out, 11 antitank guns destroyed, a few of my antitank crews dead. I had only one antitank crew left to kill off the lone German tank, but unfortunately I ran out of the time and turns.

I think the secret is to establish a graduated defense system. It has its own positives and drawbacks. One of the main drawbacks is that you couldn't go out with a big bang...taking out as many tanks as you can in one big shootout. But one of the positives is that you can hide antitank crews within woods and rock boulders, keep them hiding unless very tank passed....unaware of my crews lying in ambush.

I had gotten at least five of the German tanks in this fashion. The others were knocked out by long distances.

One of the reasons why Germans lost the Eastern Front war is that Hitler refused to accept the philosophy of a graduated defense system, had he done so, then it is likely that Soviets may very well be stopped at Vistula river in Poland, it's just my opinion, a humble one, if you will!

In addition to the Soviets being stopped, dozens of German divisions wouldn't be encircled and destroyed outright!

Nobody realizes that it took Allies six years to enter Germany...it speaks volumes of German's vaunted military machine!

Thanks,
Dan

 

[KG_ThorsHammer]

I too didnt find the demo scenarios exceptionally good, but I'm sure they had their hands full just trying to get everything done. I dont think the scens are bad though, just not great. At kursk I pretty much wiped the Russians out:ar15: and at yelnia I was able to fight them to a draw, with one 37mm taking out 4 T-34s . It wasnt easy though, I acheived frontal turret penetration over and over at under 400 metres on the tanks before the crew finally bailed. My poor gun finally ran out of ammo and was eventually knocked out. It was an interesting demonstration of how things will play out with tanks come the real thing. The cries of "uraahhh" sent chills down my spine