AT guns and how it works form a newbie

Josh

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I am doing S14, silence that gun. I am a newbie first time with AT 75. How does it work? :nuts:

I know I can't fire WP with Germans so that leaves me with regular smokes, heat against infantry in buildings or behind walls... Is that it? Is there a regular shell I can fire? :(

Now, how does it work? I must do a TH DR (not area fire, right?)
this is my PFPh by the way.

+2 vs concealed target, +2 TEM, these will be on my IFT??

Now IFT will be what table?

As I mentioned, i am new at this, first scenario with AT guns.
Thanks for the help... :nervous:
 

alanp

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Josh,

see my e-mail. the ammo type and TH drms are all included in it.

But others please reply here, too, as I may have forgotten something!

Alan
 

Reepicheep

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Your 75 AT Gun also fires HE and AP, as signified by the lack of underlines either above or below the 75 mm gun size.

HE will be one of your best options against infantry, better than HEAT because you can fire at infantry in the open as well.

There are two steps to obtaining a result with any Ordnance (Gun or Vehicle) weapon. First, you need to see if you hit. Second, if you hit, you need to check what damage you achieved.

To see if you hit your target, you roll a TH DR. First, cross reference the distance to the target with the target type. You'll probably be using the Infantry Target Type, which has a Basic TH of 8 for a range of up to 6 hexes from your Gun.

Then, you'll roll the dice and add any of the DRM on the C5 and C6 tables to the DR to produce a Final DR. This includes Case K (Concealed Target, +2) and Case Q (TEM, +2).

Let's say they were the only DRM's that applied. To have hit your target, your Final DR must be less than equal to the Basic TH number. So if the Basic TH was 8, and your DRM were +4, you'd have needed to have rolled a DR of 4 or less to hit.

Okay. That's stage one done. Now what did you achieve? Was it all in vain?

Now you roll a second time, but this time on the IFT to find the damage result. Use the IFT column that corresponds to the mm size of the Gun you were firing, or the next column down if your gun is an inbetween size (like your gun). So a 75mm will be resolved on the 12 FP column.

Go ahead and roll. Note that TEM does not apply to the resolution. That's because when you fire Infantry Target Type, the TEM has already been accounted for in modifying the chances you hit the guys in the first place.

And that's pretty much it, for a basic run through. There are other odd things that you might run in to, like Critical Hits and the like, but this is probably good for most cases.


One final thing to consider... you could also fire using the Area Target Type. There are two main differences. First, TEM doesn't apply as a DRM to the To Hit roll. So using the example from above, at a range of 6 the Basic TH for Area Target Type would be 7. Your Final DR would only have the +2 DRM for firing against a concealed target. So a 5 or less would hit; slightly better chance than with the Infantry Target Type.

The downside is that in exchange for a better chance to hit, your FP is reduced on the IFT resolution. Instead of the 12FP column, you'd halve it to the 6 FP column. Plus, TEM would act as a modifier on the roll.

Hope this at least helps get you going.
 

da priest

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Hmmm..can't remember the scenario card..is this the one?

"9. 7.5cm PaK 97/38: A stop-gap conversion necessitated by the need for more AT guns that could effectively engage the T-34 and KV. It consisted of the barrel from the famous French 75 Model 1897, modified and mounted on a PaK 38 carriage. The gun was too powerful for this light carriage however, which caused problems in action. Some 700 were built and rushed to the Eastern front, but as soon as better guns became available the PaK 97/38 was relegated to second-line use. Some were encountered in Normandy, being used as light artillery. Captured French and Polish ammunition was mostly used with the PaK 97/38, but a HEAT round was also specially designed and issued for it.

[font=Times New Roman,Times]See also German Ordnance note N[/font] "

doesn't have a line above or below the "75" so you got HE and AP. So this answers "Is there a regular shell I can fire?", yep you sure do. You get a Hit with HE against Infantry anywhere and it is a "12 flat".

I must do a TH DR (not area fire, right?)
this is my PFPh by the way
. Don't have to do non-area fire.

+2 vs concealed target, +2 TEM, these will be on my IFT??
Nope on TH for non-area. So you'll need a 3 probably. After TH, if you hit, it'll be 12 even.

Now if you did Area, whole nother animal. TH is "7", but TK results are affected by the ? and TEM on the IFT. FP halved to 6, TEM +2 on IFT.

think I got it right, but I'm old and feeble, so who knows?:confused:
 

PZchala

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I am doing S14, silence that gun. I am a newbie first time with AT 75. How does it work? :nuts:
ASL14 Silence That Gun...0-3 playing this old classic.

I know I can't fire WP with Germans so that leaves me with regular smokes, heat against infantry in buildings or behind walls... Is that it? Is there a regular shell I can fire? :(
Your correct on the H6 & s7. This Gun can also fire AP and HE, as the "75" on the counter is not underscored or overscored. See C2.21.

Now, how does it work? I must do a TH DR (not area fire, right?)
this is my PFPh by the way.
Yes, a THDR is necessary. Area Fire Target Type (ATT) can be used when firing HE, but you do not have to use ATT to fire at a concealed infantry unit.

+2 vs concealed target, +2 TEM, these will be on my IFT??
If using the ITT, firing at a concealed unit in a +2 building or behind a wall, then these will apply as DRM to your THDR.

Now IFT will be what table?
The 75AT rolls on the 12 column of the IFT. The concealed status of the infantry unit does not half this. See C.4 and C3.53.

As I mentioned, i am new at this, first scenario with AT guns.
Thanks for the help... :nervous:
Hope this helps!
 

sgtono

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And one little side note, if you fire non area (Infantry Target Type) at the concealed unit you cannot acquire with a miss shot. If you fire area you can area acq.

Keith
 

Josh

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Thanks to all for the help, wow, a lot to it but hard to get a hit by the sounds of it. So I get the acquisition like a mortar if I use area fire? hard to decide, both will probably leave me with no hit anyway...
 

alanp

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what Josh left out was that the Gun must change CA in a building for that first shot--we're talking +6 case A drm, too :nervous:
but, like I mentioned, Josh, that +6 goes away for subsequent shots. I forgot in the e-mail to mention that Rof goes down by one when you change CA by one hex-spine, too.
 

Jack Dionne

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Excellent Post

Reepicheep said:
Your 75 AT Gun also fires HE and AP, as signified by the lack of underlines either above or below the 75 mm gun size.

HE will be one of your best options against infantry, better than HEAT because you can fire at infantry in the open as well.

There are two steps to obtaining a result with any Ordnance (Gun or Vehicle) weapon. First, you need to see if you hit. Second, if you hit, you need to check what damage you achieved.

To see if you hit your target, you roll a TH DR. First, cross reference the distance to the target with the target type. You'll probably be using the Infantry Target Type, which has a Basic TH of 8 for a range of up to 6 hexes from your Gun.

Then, you'll roll the dice and add any of the DRM on the C5 and C6 tables to the DR to produce a Final DR. This includes Case K (Concealed Target, +2) and Case Q (TEM, +2).

Let's say they were the only DRM's that applied. To have hit your target, your Final DR must be less than equal to the Basic TH number. So if the Basic TH was 8, and your DRM were +4, you'd have needed to have rolled a DR of 4 or less to hit.

Okay. That's stage one done. Now what did you achieve? Was it all in vain?

Now you roll a second time, but this time on the IFT to find the damage result. Use the IFT column that corresponds to the mm size of the Gun you were firing, or the next column down if your gun is an inbetween size (like your gun). So a 75mm will be resolved on the 12 FP column.

Go ahead and roll. Note that TEM does not apply to the resolution. That's because when you fire Infantry Target Type, the TEM has already been accounted for in modifying the chances you hit the guys in the first place.

And that's pretty much it, for a basic run through. There are other odd things that you might run in to, like Critical Hits and the like, but this is probably good for most cases.


One final thing to consider... you could also fire using the Area Target Type. There are two main differences. First, TEM doesn't apply as a DRM to the To Hit roll. So using the example from above, at a range of 6 the Basic TH for Area Target Type would be 7. Your Final DR would only have the +2 DRM for firing against a concealed target. So a 5 or less would hit; slightly better chance than with the Infantry Target Type.

The downside is that in exchange for a better chance to hit, your FP is reduced on the IFT resolution. Instead of the 12FP column, you'd halve it to the 6 FP column. Plus, TEM would act as a modifier on the roll.

Hope this at least helps get you going.
It is because of the quality of your posts that new guys won't be afraid to ask. Keep up the good work. Your an asset to our hobby.
 

Josh

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So anyway, because of the +6 for CA change, a possible +2 for concealment and +2 for TEM, more than the TH#8 I needed. I went with area fire althoug still 8 for no effect. Now, I can still fire ITT next time instead of area fire, right? It didn't matter, I rolled an 11 for a broken AT, all of this for a broken AT... First turn of scenario and it's almost over...
 

Reepicheep

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Yes, and the -1 acquisition you would have gained from the ATT shot can be transferred and used on an ITT shot, provided it's not used against a concealed target. (C6.52)
 

Tompy

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Josh,

My playings of "Silence that Gun" have seen the actual firing of the AT Gun as not a big deal. In other words, the Germans have enough to win the scenario without ever firing the AT Gun. In fact I've won it a couple of times this way.

Because of this "Silence that Gun" is not an ideal first Ordnance scenario. There's that one with the two 88s, "Zon with the Wind". The Guns play a bigger role, and the scenario is a better way to introduce the To Hit process without vehicles.

The Paratrooper scenarios feature a lot of Lt. MTR and infantry scenarios. Defiance on Hill 30 is a great one. Of course MTR are a bad way to learn the TH process because they are basically an exception to chapter C and combine the TH process with Indirect Fire principles.

Other scenarios...
Retribution
To Clear a Roadblock
Last Defense Line (also includes OBA)
Bread Factory #2 (Red Barricades)
Scotch on the Rocks (Mortars only, but big ones)

Good luck
 
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