Hero created after interdiction NMC

[Jwil2020]

I don't think we are in disagreement. I think you are speaking of the HOB DR. I am saying that before we even get to HOB DR, the Rally 1,1 which preceded it could have produced a rallied unit. How else do you explain that sentence in A15.1? "The Heat of Battle DRM for a broken unit applies even if the unit rallied as a result of the 2 DR which allowed the Heat of Battle DR." Notice the word rallied is past tense- to me indicating that it has already happened as a result of the Rally DR, not the HOB DR. IOW, once the 1,1 was rolled to rally, we now move onto the HOB DR with the already rallied unit to determine what other thing(s) might happen. Thus A15.1 is alluding to two separate DR: the Rally DR followed by the HOB DR.

True, given multiple +DRMs for the rally attempt, even a 1,1 would not have rallied the unit. Here is where the HOB DR might still achieve that, as you point out.

 

[Doug Leslie]

I don't think we are in disagreement. I think you are speaking of the HOB DR. I am saying that before we even get to HOB DR, the Rally 1,1 which preceded it could have produced a rallied unit. How else do you explain that sentence in A15.1? "The Heat of Battle DRM for a broken unit applies even if the unit rallied as a result of the 2 DR which allowed the Heat of Battle DR." Notice the word rallied is past tense- to me indicating that it has already happened as a result of the Rally DR, not the HOB DR. IOW, once the 1,1 was rolled to rally, we now move onto the HOB DR with the already rallied unit to determine what other thing(s) might happen. Thus A15.1 is alluding to two separate DR: the Rally DR followed by the HOB DR.

True, given multiple +DRMs for the rally attempt, even a 1,1 would not have rallied the unit. Here is where the HOB DR might still achieve that, as you point out.

The part that I think is incorrect is the statement that a final HOB DR of 6 or less creates a hero and battle hardening result. Only a final DR of 5 or 6 does this. A final DR of 2-4 only produces a hero while the MMC rallies normally.

 

[FrankH.]

In response to responses to the original question... I think it needs to be emphasized that an Interdiction MC is not a Rally Attempt. And that while an Interdiction MC may result in HOB, not all HOB are from Rally Attempts. A final HOB DR <5 from an Interdiction MC results in a hero creation, but does not rally the Interdicted unit - this unit has merely escaped a casualty reduction by virtue of passing its Interdiction MC with an original 2 MC DR.

 

[Jwil2020]

In response to responses to the original question... I think it needs to be emphasized that an Interdiction MC is not a Rally Attempt. And that while an Interdiction MC may result in HOB, not all HOB are from Rally Attempts. A final HOB DR <5 from an Interdiction MC results in a hero creation, but does not rally the Interdicted unit - this unit has merely escaped a casualty reduction by virtue of passing its Interdiction MC with an original 2 MC DR.

Yes, I agree that a HOB result generated from an interdiction MC, and a HOB result generated from a Rally attempt are similar, yet different. I was addressing the issue of a unit rolling a 1,1 on a Rally attempt. But even there my math was slightly off as Doug has pointed out. But it is still possible that after the RALLY 1,1 DR, and the HOB dice being kind (or unkind depending on your perspective) one could end up with a Battled Hardened GO MMC with a Hero to spur it on. A triple whammy!

 

[Jwil2020]

The part that I think is incorrect is the statement that a final HOB DR of 6 or less creates a hero and battle hardening result. Only a final DR of 5 or 6 does this. A final DR of 2-4 only produces a hero while the MMC rallies normally.

Ah yes. I see what you are saying. Correct. Final 2-4 Hero only. Final 5-6 Hero and BH.

 

[Zugführer]

How else do you explain that sentence in A15.1? "The Heat of Battle DRM for a broken unit applies even if the unit rallied as a result of the 2 DR which allowed the Heat of Battle DR."

My explanation is: During the RPh when the player rolls an original 2 in an MC of a broken unit and the unit rallies because of rolling < its morale value, then the player has to make the follow-up DR for HoB and must use the +1 DRM for a broken unit although the unit is rallied before. But an original 2 DR does not rally a broken unit per se.

There are situations during the RPh where a broken unit cannot rally at all even if rolling an original 2 in the Rally check. For example: A German 2-3-6 HS has a morale value of 4. If this HS is DM (+4), in a Woods hex (-1) with a 7-0 leader (+0), it will not rally when rolling an original 2 (2+4-1+0=5), because it is not possible to roll < 4 in this situation (EXC: Follow-up DR for HoB results in Berserk or Battle Hardening).

 

[Vinnie]

Of course, to muddy things further, there can be instances where a unit roll heat of battle and still fails the morale check. In that case, HoB only occurs if the unit survives the failed MC.

E.g., a broken conscript hs suffers a 3MC. he's gone no matter what the HOB roll is.

 

[Bill Kohler]

Of course, to muddy things further, there can be instances where a unit roll heat of battle and still fails the morale check. In that case, HoB only occurs if the unit survives the failed MC.

E.g., a broken conscript hs suffers a 3MC. he's gone no matter what the HOB roll is.

Is this true? My take is that if the Original DR is a 2, then you always roll on the HoB table.

A15.1: ... This process is reflected by a Heat of Battle DR which follows any Original MC or Rally (not Self-Rally) DR of 2. ...

See also the Chapter A divider, HoB Table: "DR follows any Original 2 MC/Rally DR"

 

[Vinnie]

Pretty sure there's Q&A.

 

[Vinnie]

A10.3, A15. - A Broken conscript HS takes a 4MC and rolls an original 2 DR, failing the MC and suffering Casualty Reduction. Is the HOB DR made before the CR result is applied?
A. No; no HoB DR would occur.
source = unspecified

 

[Bill Kohler]

Pretty sure there's Q&A.

You are correct:

A10.3 & A15.
A Broken conscript HS takes a 4MC and rolls an original 2 DR, failing the MC and suffering Casualty Reduction. Is the HOB DR made before the CR result is applied? A. No; no HoB DR would occur.

 

[Bill Kohler]

A10.3 & A15.
A Broken conscript HS takes a 4MC and rolls an original 2 DR, failing the MC and suffering Casualty Reduction. Is the HOB DR made before the CR result is applied? A. No; no HoB DR would occur.

Presumably, this would mean that a broken Conscript Squad which rolls a CR on a #MC with a 2 DR, would first be CRed, then the surviving HS would undergo an HoB roll.

 

[Vinnie]

Presumably, this would mean that a broken Conscript Squad which rolls a CR on a #MC with a 2 DR, would first be CRed, then the surviving HS would undergo an HoB roll.

Correct. Resolve the MC first, then apply the HoB.
So a squad that elrs on the 2 then battle hardens will go down a level then up a level even if the battle hardening result meant that he wouldn't elr.

 

[Jwil2020]

But an original 2 DR does not rally a broken unit per se.

There are situations during the RPh where a broken unit cannot rally at all even if rolling an original 2 in the Rally check. For example: A German 2-3-6 HS has a morale value of 4. If this HS is DM (+4), in a Woods hex (-1) with a 7-0 leader (+0), it will not rally when rolling an original 2 (2+4-1+0=5), because it is not possible to roll < 4 in this situation (EXC: Follow-up DR for HoB results in Berserk or Battle Hardening).

Agreed. And I said as much up thread: "True, given multiple +DRMs for the rally attempt, even a 1,1 would not have rallied the unit. Here is where the HOB DR might still achieve that, as you point out."

 

[VonHutier]

This thread is surely representative of why we love ASL ?

 

[ScottRomanowski]

source = unspecified

Klas's compilation is all Perry Sez, so the only question that might arise is the date.

 

[Vinnie]

Klas's compilation is all Perry Sez, so the only question that might arise is the date.

I entered into my easlrb before JRV added the function to put in the source and this us why it comes up unspecified. It is a Perry Sez