You just been clocking me.

[BattleSchool]

Complaints concerning slow play have come up several times in another thread.

I seem to recall that some Aussies used chess clocks at tourneys to regulate play.

Does anyone know how they calculated the amount of time available to each side?

I'm still a mystery to you.

 

[Blaze]

30 minutes I think was mentioned. Saying that there are a lot of factors that go into the time formula they came up with. IIRC it was in line with 30 minutes per turn on avg. But man in ASL there are many factors that would change that scenario to scenario.

I can get through the same 6 turn modern scenario in 2.5 hours with some players and 5 to 6 hours with others. Of course, those are more social FTF games not in a tourney setting. I was my own opponent, maybe 3 to 4 hours.

 

[Paul John]

This has to be adjusted for counter density and attacker v defender. It is nuts to think the attacker needs the same time (almost always anyway). Although I would never agree to a timer. I would rather concede before we started.

 

[von Marwitz]

Although I would never agree to a timer. I would rather concede before we started.

Same here.

von Marwitz

 

[BattleSchool]

30 minutes I think was mentioned. Saying that there are a lot of factors that go into the time formula they came up with. IIRC it was in line with 30 minutes per turn on avg. But man in ASL there are many factors that would change that scenario to scenario.

I can get through the same 6 turn modern scenario in 2.5 hours with some players and 5 to 6 hours with others. Of course, those are more social FTF games not in a tourney setting. I was my own opponent, maybe 3 to 4 hours.

Do you recall if the opposing player had to stop the clock and switch to his time before he called a halt to a move or processed a shot?

I'm trying to get a rough idea what slow play looks like objectively. Played a scenario on Friday where it took me almost two hours to complete a turn as the CPVA. All those TC before IPM, then the IPM itself, not to mention my opponent's annoying habit of interrupting my tactical genius moves to stripe, pin, or totally wipe out my brave Chicoms.

 

[BattleSchool]

Same here.

von Marwitz

I don't see why. Aren't ze Germans always on time?

 

[Robin Reeve]

Isn't the bottom line about players getting along?
Which is highly subjective and situation dependent.
What is the objective of the game session?
Is it friendly or tourney? The constraints of the latter can generate some tension.
How do both players show and expect respect one for the other?
I don't think a clock can solve those questions, especially as each side, even playing at the same pace, may need a different time per turn (a defender typically maneuvers less).

 

[BattleSchool]

Gauging how long a scenario should take to play is an important element in determining which scenario to put in a particular time slot, and which to exclude altogether based on average play time.

When one or both players play too slow, adjudication may be required. This in itself can be time consuming and divert the TD and his staff from other important work such as preparing the matchups for next round.

Then there's the players' perspectives relative to time and pace of play...

 

[Actionjick]

I'm glad the Aussies made this work but I would pass on it.

 

[Michael R]

JR Tracy wrote an article for CH magazine about playing ASL with a chess clock.

The key part:
Each side receives time equal to (number of squads, crews, radio/phones, and non-AFV vehicles) x (number of player turns) x (.5 minutes), FRD to whole minutes. AFVs get .75 minutes instead of .5 minutes.

Erik Lindblad and I tried a couple of games like this. We both found there was not enough time. Not all of us have a brain with the horsepower of JR's.

Something challenging about it is remembering when to start and stop the clock.

 

[bendizoid]

It takes some getting used to with both of you hitting the button at the right times, learning curve. It’s easy to space out and forget, especially when you’re preoccupied with the din of battle.

 

[Richard Weiley]

Played with clocks the at a couple of tournaments. Was never a fan of them. Haven’t seen them used in a number of years. Never found them very successful at enforcing time limits. Say for example you had a round scheduled to run from 9am to 1pm. You would regularly be waiting for games to finish at 2pm and those guys would still have time on the clock.

 

[pensatl1962]

This all reminds me of something we’d say back in the day: “The ‘too-hard light’ is on…”

 

[David Goldman]

In gauging length of scenarios for the eASL OPEN, I use a rule of thumb of 1 minute per OB given squad, half squad, unarmed vehicle, gun and 2 minutes per afv times the number of turns the unit is on board. When the OPEN was a ftf tournament, this worked fairly well in avoiding games that had to be called at the end of a round.

 

[clubby]

When did everything become a race?

 

[Robin Reeve]

When did everything become a race?

A tournament would set time limits on each round.

 

[PresterJohn]

I'm glad the Aussies made this work but I would pass on it.

An Australian Tournament used clocks?
I hadn't heard of this unless it was very recent and think it needs to be checked. My feeling is that the first time it was tried it would turn into a shit-show unless it was practised at club level first.

 

[clubby]

I didn't realize we were only talking about tournaments. That's fine, I understand the need to finish in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[synicbast]

An Australian Tournament used clocks?
I hadn't heard of this unless it was very recent and think it needs to be checked. My feeling is that the first time it was tried it would turn into a shit-show unless it was practised at club level first.

Pretty sure Octobear and/or Junobear used chess clocks at least once sometime before 2014 and IIRC so did a Cancon between 2007 and 2016 - mainly because I remember a big battered cardboard box with all the chessclocks - probably a Junobear, Octobears were more just a well organised club meet.

 

[Robin Reeve]

I didn't realize we were only talking about tournaments. That's fine, I understand the need to finish in a reasonable amount of time.

I think the topic was wider than tournaments.
I answered your question evoking them, as they would be a context where time constraints would exist.

Now, even in a friendly game, when a player drags too much, it can be straining for their opponent.
I mean, when a player takes twice or thrice the time that their opponent, all things equal, it can be annoying.
Mind you, I do play with opponents who play much more slowly than me, so I don't think I am overly intolerant.
But when a player freezes five minutes before rolling their WDR or before routing a brokie along the only possible path...
However, as I play most of the time on VASL, I can go on forums answer rules questions, etc. while my opponent drags their feet.

I wonder if some very slow players are too burdened about the aim of playing the perfect game, and freeze even for quite inconsequential actions?
Pondering upon the fate of that 4 morale conscript half-squad stranded in open ground under enemy fire, too far away to reach a victory objective, is most often a waste of time.

OTOH, I am personally under pressure when it is my time to play: I hate to make my opponent wait too much.
But that is my inner "superego"/conscience tourmenting me, because my tendency is to be an "adapted child" from a transactional analysis perspective.
And it can be a flaw, if I (secretly) expect other people to have the same psychological profile.