VASL issue with VASSAL 3.7.20

[Simon62]

Hi,

we have upgraded VASSAL to 3.7.20 from 3.7.19 and we are getting strange results when non unit counters are placed on top on units on the map E.G. smoke, acq's, CX, control markers etc

The units below these markers disappear and you have to move all units out of the hex then move them all back in at which point they can be seen

This seems to happen in both VASL 6.7.1 and VASL 6.7.2 beta 4 - it didn't happen when running VASSAL 3.7.19

It doesn't always happen although it does seem that smoke is consistent in hiding tings every time

I am going to revert back to VASSAL 3.7.19 to check it doesn't happen there but think we would have noticed it

Simon

 

[PresterJohn]

I'm not seeing it when creating a new game with 3.7.20 and 6.7.1, using board 4 and pulling German squads and putting CX and smoke markers on them, and moving the counters.

 

[von Marwitz]

Hi,

we have upgraded VASSAL to 3.7.20 from 3.7.19 and we are getting strange results when non unit counters are placed on top on units on the map E.G. smoke, acq's, CX, control markers etc

The units below these markers disappear and you have to move all units out of the hex then move them all back in at which point they can be seen

This seems to happen in both VASL 6.7.1 and VASL 6.7.2 beta 4 - it didn't happen when running VASSAL 3.7.19

It doesn't always happen although it does seem that smoke is consistent in hiding tings every time

I am going to revert back to VASSAL 3.7.19 to check it doesn't happen there but think we would have noticed it

Simon

I have the following hunch:

Have you checked if the counters you are using have been pulled post-VASL v6.6.10?

If you are using an old pre-made setup file, i.e. pre-VASL v6.7 (i.e. currently almost any pre-made setup file), sometimes there might be issues with older counters of the pre-SVG era (the latter started with VASL v6.7).

Up to VASL v6.6.10 inclusive, it has always been a good idea to use the "update counters" function of VASL, which would auto-replace all counters in old setup files with those of v6.6.10 (EXC: counters of Extensions). Since VASL v6.7, this "update counters" button is defunct and will remain so at minimum until the next VASL release in fall 2026 as Doug Rimmer has recently noted.

As differences between counters are especially pronounced pre-v6.7 and post-v6.6.10, when using old setup files, you should repull the counters for the current VASL version manually (which is still a lot quicker than doing the entire setup from scrap).

von Marwitz

 

[Simon62]

Hi

thanks for the duggestion but i dont think this is the problem we are playing a VOTG campaign and habe been at it for anout 6 months - everything was fine untill two weeks ago when we were running VASSAL 3.7.19 and VASL 6.7.1 we then upgraded to VASSAL 3.7.20 and had this problem in our last two sessions. I took a copy of the file and loaded it using VASL 6.7.2 beta4 and the problem still persisted. The test he i used had a fortified building with a 76l Art and crew and a russian 4-5-8 with a MMG. When hovering over the hex eveything showed - put a smokeonntje hex and when hovering the cursor over it only tje smoke was visable. Moved all counters out of the hex and tjen back innand everything becomes visable

 

[ibncalb]

Are you using boardzoomer?

 

[Simon62]

I am but it is at 100% - what I have noticed is that the smoke is placed completely in the middle of the hex and you cant see the edges of other units in the hex - if you then move all units and smoke out, put the units back and then put the soke on top the smoke is slightly offset and you can see the edges of the units under the smoke and you can see all units when you hover the mouse over the hex - it looks like the positioning of the markers when placed why this would be different on a hex that already has units in it and then be ok if you move everything out and back in I don't know?? it didn't happen at VASSAL 3.7.19

 

[ibncalb]

I am but it is at 100% - what I have noticed is that the smoke is placed completely in the middle of the hex and you cant see the edges of other units in the hex - if you then move all units and smoke out, put the units back and then put the soke on top the smoke is slightly offset and you can see the edges of the units under the smoke and you can see all units when you hover the mouse over the hex - it looks like the positioning of the markers when placed why this would be different on a hex that already has units in it and then be ok if you move everything out and back in I don't know?? it didn't happen at VASSAL 3.7.19

If you and your oppo use different snap settings then the stacks can mask each other.

If you position some stacks on snap 2 then later switch to snap 1 this can happen.

The zoom level does not matter.

Let me know if this helps. The BZ designer does have a tool in development to reset all stacks to centre snap to fix this mélange.

 

[Simon62]

Ok thanks we are set to play on Tuesday so we can check this then and report back

 

[DougRim]

Hi

thanks for the duggestion but i dont think this is the problem we are playing a VOTG campaign and habe been at it for anout 6 months - everything was fine untill two weeks ago when we were running VASSAL 3.7.19 and VASL 6.7.1 we then upgraded to VASSAL 3.7.20 and had this problem in our last two sessions. I took a copy of the file and loaded it using VASL 6.7.2 beta4 and the problem still persisted. The test he i used had a fortified building with a 76l Art and crew and a russian 4-5-8 with a MMG. When hovering over the hex eveything showed - put a smokeonntje hex and when hovering the cursor over it only tje smoke was visable. Moved all counters out of the hex and tjen back innand everything becomes visable

Like others, I cannot replicate this problem. Could you please send me (1) a copy of the current game file and (2) a list of all of the installed extensions for you and your opponent (you can get that by doing a snip of the chat window at start up (you can expand the window to display more of list temporarily if need be)). Email @ dougerimmer@gmail.com.

Does it only happen when your are online together? Can you generate the same problem when not online?

 

[DougRim]

If you are using an old pre-made setup file, i.e. pre-VASL v6.7 (i.e. currently almost any pre-made setup file), sometimes there might be issues with older counters of the pre-SVG era (the latter started with VASL v6.7).

Up to VASL v6.6.10 inclusive, it has always been a good idea to use the "update counters" function of VASL, which would auto-replace all counters in old setup files with those of v6.6.10 (EXC: counters of Extensions). Since VASL v6.7, this "update counters" button is defunct and will remain so at minimum until the next VASL release in fall 2026 as Doug Rimmer has recently noted.

As differences between counters are especially pronounced pre-v6.7 and post-v6.6.10, when using old setup files, you should repull the counters for the current VASL version manually (which is still a lot quicker than doing the entire setup from scrap).

von Marwitz

To clarify, files in the Scenario Setup Files extension (available at VASL.info) are all updated to the latest VASL functionality. So the current version of the extension contains files (some 500) updated to 6.7.1.

 

[Simon62]

OK the game manifests the problems whether we are playing online or offline and we both get the problem - I have also started a new VOTG game offline and do not get the problem.

I also noticed that there are 2 VOTG boards in VASL to select
VOTG HASL
VOTG HASL updated

what is the difference? sure when we started the game there was only one VOTG board - do we need to use the updated board?

When loaded our V7.6.1 game file we do get a message saying "bad data in module. Source VBM00.gif error image not found"
When loaded with V6.7.2 Beta 4 we get the messages "board VOTG is out of date - updating " the it says "update failed" it tries this 6 times then says it is using board VOTG(4.0) and the same error as in V7.6.1 comes up re the VBM00.gif image nit found. Then the game loads.

When I look at earlier game saves it says it was using VOTG board 3.1.

I will email you the save games - the problem is that when you have a stack of units they are offset in the display so that you see the top unit and the edges of the units underneath (E.G. normal stack view)- if you drop a marker on top of the stack it sits in the center of the hex and you can't see the units in the hex at all, I.E. it doesn't seem to stack on top in the normal manner. When hovering on the hex you only see the marker not the units underneath. if you move the marker off the hex and either double click on the stack to expand it or move the stack out and back into the hex or move the marker to the bottom of the stack then everything shows fine and the marker is now offset in the stack view.

My gut feeing is it something to do with the boards.

I will email you a V6.7.1 game and a V6.7.2 beta 4 game so you should be able to play around and see yourself.

I have an addition V6.7.2 beta 4 problem in that 5/8" counters that are concealed and then have their CA changed then disappear and you can't re-see them until you unconceal them again this can be seen in the game files. This only happens at V6.7.2 beta 4 not at V6.7.1

Regards

Simon

 

[DougRim]

@Gordon

OK the game manifests the problems whether we are playing online or offline and we both get the problem - I have also started a new VOTG game offline and do not get the problem.

Well this is quite important and suggests that your initial problem is related to version migration in some way.

I would suggest that you revert to 6.7.1/3.7.19 for your ongoing campaign game. And use 6.7.2-beta4 and 3.7.20 for new games. 6.7.2 will issue in April.

It is possible to have multiple versions of VASL and VASSAL on your device at the same time. Put all of your VASL modules in one folder and select which one you want to use for a given game - they should appear in your VASSAL window. For VASSAL, when you go through the installation process, select "Custom" rather than "Standard" install and, at the next screen, don't select any VASSAL modules to be removed.

This should give you sufficient flexibility. Remember that if you open a game by double-clicking on the .vsav file, it will ALWAYS use the latest versions of VASSAL and VASL available, regardless of what versions it was saved with. I never open games this way.

I also noticed that there are 2 VOTG boards in VASL to select
VOTG HASL
VOTG HASL updated

what is the difference? sure when we started the game there was only one VOTG board - do we need to use the updated board?

There is no difference. We have been working on the board picker list to make it easier to find boards. Mixed success so far, I must admit. Boards that have been updated in the last 90 days should appear at the top of the list. They are also listed a second time in their appropriate sequence. When you use the search box to find a board (I only use the search box now), you get both listings. Either way you will get the latest version of the board.

When loaded our V7.6.1 game file we do get a message saying "bad data in module. Source VBM00.gif error image not found"

You can safely ignore this particular message. It implies that you were using a VBM counter in your game. Is that likely? If so, it is likely to be missing. I don't get that error when I use 6.7.1.

When loaded with V6.7.2 Beta 4 we get the messages "board VOTG is out of date - updating " the it says "update failed" it tries this 6 times then says it is using board VOTG(4.0) and the same error as in V7.6.1 comes up re the VBM00.gif image nit found. Then the game loads.

When I look at earlier game saves it says it was using VOTG board 3.1.

Board updating can fail for all sorts of reasons usually due to an interrupted internet connection. We have released two new versions (4.0 and 4.1) of VotG in the past week or so as we try to add LOS Checking to the board. If you try again today you should get 4.1. LOS Checking will probably be disabled as the bug fix requires a change to the VASL code and that will come out in the next beta or the 672 official release in April.

I will email you the save games - the problem is that when you have a stack of units they are offset in the display so that you see the top unit and the edges of the units underneath (E.G. normal stack view)- if you drop a marker on top of the stack it sits in the center of the hex and you can't see the units in the hex at all, I.E. it doesn't seem to stack on top in the normal manner. When hovering on the hex you only see the marker not the units underneath. if you move the marker off the hex and either double click on the stack to expand it or move the stack out and back into the hex or move the marker to the bottom of the stack then everything shows fine and the marker is now offset in the stack view.

My gut feeing is it something to do with the boards.

That would be mine too. I would hope that once you download v4.1 of the map, counters should be correctly positioned. Once you move to 6.7.2 and LOS Checking becomes enabled, you may see the problem come back. The reason for that is that boards with LOS Checking use a different method to calculate the geometry of the map and so may position units slightly differently than non-LOS boards.

I will email you a V6.7.1 game and a V6.7.2 beta 4 game so you should be able to play around and see yourself.

That would be most helpful.

I have an addition V6.7.2 beta 4 problem in that 5/8" counters that are concealed and then have their CA changed then disappear and you can't re-see them until you unconceal them again this can be seen in the game files. This only happens at V6.7.2 beta 4 not at V6.7.1

Yes, that is a separate issue which has been flagged by several people.

Regards

Simon