Is CH defunct?

[Actionjick]

Bargain side in the sense of what it takes for development. My research materials for my piece of AP22 cost me close to $400. I spent about 10 hours fleshing out the units and OB for each scenario. I spent another 5 to 10 hours researching Gary's work (as he did mine) to make sure we are reasonably representing the units present. Even then, it is never enough. Then there is the playtesting. I reckon that represents 20 - 50 hours of my time for each scenario. I play mine once on my own, pushing counters, make sure entry and exit feels right, making sure the force mix feels right. Then we play them together twice, once as each side. Then we discuss changes and modifications. Then we play it twice again, once as each side. Discuss changes and modifications. This continues until we feel they are "done". Then we send it to external play testers to confirm. I doubt they invest the time Gary and I do but their time is precious and not to be wasted. Good feedback from quality players is invaluable. Then there is final layout and submission. None of this cost is factored into the price you pay at the register.

So yes, it is a bargain. In many ways, the ASL you play is a gift from developers. I can't imagine ANY of us are recouping our cost for materials, let along our time.

I am not asking for thanks or recognition. ASL relies on people submitting stuff simply because they love doing it. If developers, play testers, editors, and reviewers got paid even minimum wage the price of ASL would rival a car payment.

Even then, it would be a bargain if you think in terms dollars spent divided by hours played.

I think most of those who contribute to ASL in whatever fashion do so at a net loss. To paraphrase Doctor Watson when referring to Holmes not taking a payment: His work is it's own reward.

Not quite the same but very close. I remember people saying " what does Fish do with all that money from Oktoberfest? " Lmfao! After paying for our room and the special guests expenses, Mac, Charlie, Rex, there wasn't much left. I got t-shirts, sleep deprivation, lost vacation days, and a hoarse throat. Wouldn't trade those memories for anything practically. Good times, great people.

Well practically anything. Let's be practical.

 

[wrongway149]

Bargain side in the sense of what it takes for development. My research materials for my piece of AP22 cost me close to $400. I

The small stipend I get as a designer is just recycled into 'book money' for the next product's research.

And lately it's been more from Thrift books than new copies.

 

[PNMarkW2]

I just wanted to say I've enjoy the discussion. Like many I used to buy CH product regularly, but when they moved into recycling and reissuing the same material over and over I dropped CH products from my wish list permanently.

On the topic of price I think it's fair to say prices are high all around for ASL products, but there is still a distinction to be made for quality where I'm willing to pay a premium price for product from people I trust to deliver something I'll enjoy. So I will buy everything from MMP, and when the budget allows I pick up products that interest me form LCP, BFP and LFT as well.

That said, this discussion has caused me to rethink a potential CH purchase. I'm thinking about their Arab Israeli Wars products. But, and it's a big but, I still have to overcome my feelings about CH which has caused me to not buy anything from them for decades, and my views on the likely quality still leave me thinking they're overpriced, so the odds are still against it.

 

[Hutch]

Using the Archive as a reference, current Scenario published numbers.
(These are the ASL/ASLSK quantities listed under Publisher)
CH: 3,128
MMP: 1,666
SE: 514
LFT: 497
LCP:448
AH: 387
BFP: 337
HOB: 262
DFTB: 211
FE: 204
GJ: 163 + 17 KSM

 

[Psycho]

Using the Archive as a reference, current Scenario published numbers.
(These are the ASL/ASLSK quantities listed under Publisher)
CH: 3,128
MMP: 1,666
SE: 514
LFT: 497
LCP:448
AH: 387
BFP: 337
HOB: 262
DFTB: 211
FE: 204

edit: CH: 3 scenarios recycled over 1000 for each one

 

[Gunner Scott]

MMP is working on their version of the Arab- Israeli wars but if you cant wait for that module (I think its called Contested Lands) then I recommend trying to find the 1st edition of CH A+I folder module.

I just wanted to say I've enjoy the discussion. Like many I used to buy CH product regularly, but when they moved into recycling and reissuing the same material over and over I dropped CH products from my wish list permanently.

On the topic of price I think it's fair to say prices are high all around for ASL products, but there is still a distinction to be made for quality where I'm willing to pay a premium price for product from people I trust to deliver something I'll enjoy. So I will buy everything from MMP, and when the budget allows I pick up products that interest me form LCP, BFP and LFT as well.

That said, this discussion has caused me to rethink a potential CH purchase. I'm thinking about their Arab Israeli Wars products. But, and it's a big but, I still have to overcome my feelings about CH which has caused me to not buy anything from them for decades, and my views on the likely quality still leave me thinking they're overpriced, so the odds are still against it.

 

[PNMarkW2]

MMP is working on their version of the Arab- Israeli wars but if you cant wait for that module (I think its called Contested Lands) then I recommend trying to find the 1st edition of CH A+I folder module.

Thank you, I have already visited the CH A+I folder and reviewed the posts there. I'm also aware of the MMP product and I'm awaiting its release, someday. I will always buy an MMP product because of the anticipated quality of that item, but MMP doing a product on a topic does not mean I might not also purchase a third-part product on the same topic. The hurdle to purchasing a CH product is very high though, and while I said I was thinking about some items in the A+I series the reality is I'm not really inclined to break by decades long streak of not buying CH products.

 

[CameramanDavid]

My personal OPINION, is that CH will distribute "finished packages" for other designers, and those are usually pretty good...

The "In House" developed material is usually rushed (in order to flood the market) and not properly playtested or error checked...

 

[Blaze]

The small stipend I get as a designer is just recycled into 'book money' for the next product's research.

And lately it's been more from Thrift books than new copies.

That's why you're my favorite "Low Budget Designer" When I tried my hand in designing some Brody Scenarios, I ordered recycled books and got this:


Three years in I almost got the Forward complete. Though I may have to buy a vowel or two.

 

[von Marwitz]

When seeing this, my immediate thought was:

"This must be part of @olli 's heap of counter clippings usually concealed behind his Wall of RAACO..."

von Marwitz

 

[wrongway149]

That's why you're my favorite "Low Budget Designer" When I tried my hand in designing some Brody Scenarios, I ordered recycled books and got this:

Well I do have some pricey Fedorowiz and Leaping Horseman stuff.

Some of which I would just as soon sell at this point.

I think I am focusing on PTO and Korean War going forward. Probably a bit of Normandy as well. But there will be some 'one-offs'

 

[william.stoppel]

I would always recommend Genesis 48 (and Genesis 1/2), Guerra Civil and Dien Bien Phu. Three of the best TPPs of all time in my opinion. I also like the rest of the Arab Israeli war stuff but I like the esoteric

 

[micalex]

The idea of calculating costs for the designer and being grateful is pretty crazy, not my cake.

For CH, I usually buy secondhand from many places, lots of people will list their items for sale on BGG game comments, but are too lazy to list them on eBay or Geek Market. You often encounter old players who have been annoyed by Ray and impulsively sold all their products at once, which means a nice deal.

 

[Robin Reeve]

You often encounter old players who have been annoyed by Ray and impulsively sold all their products at once, which means a nice deal.

I would throw those products into the recycle bin.
Spreading a curse is worse than contributing to the health of our Planet.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

CH? Most of the ones I have I got them for free. DBP & Guerra Civil I paid for.

Heck, I am so grateful most days that I get a few of the modules for free! Great people, this community.

 

[Nineteen Kilo]

Since this thread was revived a couple of months ago, I have started to post a question a number of times, and each time I immediately think, "Don't do it, a flame war will instantly result". But this morning I decided two things, (1) I genuinely want to know, and (2) you guys are adults you can self-moderate, so I'm going to ask it.

I purchased Critical Hit products from the start with Critical Hit issue #1 in 1994, and thought at the time "Hey these guys are important contributors to the hobby", and placed them on the same level as Kinetic Energy Productions, Heat of Battle, & Schwerpunkt. Reviewing what's in my possession it looks like my last purchase from CH was in 2004 with issue vol 7 Number 2. However, even at the time I dropped them I had been purchasing CH products "out of habit" for a couple of years. Over the years I've read similar stories to my own numerous times (with different ending dates of course).

Question: When did Critical Hit jump the shark? And what was it specifically that changed?

 

[Sparafucil3]

Question: When did Critical Hit jump the shark? And what was it specifically that changed?

I find this question hard to answer. So this is from my own opinion and I have ZERO real insight.

• Early on, some of ASL'doms heavy hitters were were writing for CH. You read the early authors and there are names you would recognize. At some point, they drifted away.
• Early on, some of ASL'doms best scenario designers were sending things through CH. Some of the older packs from CH are truly worth the money. The Euro packs. The Paddington Bears packs. Some of the others.
• The spat with MMP strikes. This drives a wedge between CH and ASL in some way. I think at this point, ASL takes somewhat of a back seat to CH's own line of products.
• Even at this point, CH produces some quality work, but it is erratic and fully dependent upon who is doing the work. Dave Lamb and his fellow Michiganders in particular.
• Eventually Dave leaves which is a real blow.
• More and more work appears of dubious value.
• More and more, CH begins to re-release products under a different name. This causes confusion among the player base.
• This is more my own observation: more and more, as other people announce their intention to work on a project, CH seems to rush a competing product covering the same subject to market. I don't know if this was a real strategy or something that seemed to be real to me. I recommend you give CH some benefit of the doubt here.

At some point, trust REALLY broke down between customers and seller. At that point, the vitriol really kicked in. I don't know if you could put a finger on the exact moment, but IMO, the rift was blown wide open when CH and MMP ended up in court. The fall of CH was really a slow motion train wreck. Even today, I will consider their products based ONLY on the opinion of someone I trust. If a friend says the product is worthwhile, I will take a look. Elsewise, I have no interest.

What I don't do is talk bad about CH generally. Their products aren't for me but I can see where others might like them. I really wish their Desert packs had been better executed because I REALLY wanted to like them. Same for Ruwiesat Ridge.

 

[Mister T]

You may have a look at Desperation Morale's reviews and try to ascertain from which period reviews become "less favorable"
https://www.desperationmorale.com/publisher/critical-hit/

 

[Nineteen Kilo]

I find this question hard to answer. So this is from my own opinion and I have ZERO real insight.

• Early on, some of ASL'doms heavy hitters were were writing for CH. You read the early authors and there are names you would recognize. At some point, they drifted away.
• ...
• More and more, CH begins to re-release products under a different name. This causes confusion among the player base.
• ...

At some point, trust REALLY broke down between customers and seller. At that point, the vitriol really kicked in. I don't know if you could put a finger on the exact moment, but IMO, the rift was blown wide open when CH and MMP ended up in court. The fall of CH was really a slow motion train wreck. Even today, I will consider their products based ONLY on the opinion of someone I trust. If a friend says the product is worthwhile, I will take a look. Elsewise, I have no interest.....

Ref "Heavy Hitters": I was going to mention some of the Designers from the '90's, but I didn't want to put anyone on the spot. However, clearly early on CH was considered a "place to go" by some of the movers and shakers of the ASL Community.

Ref "Re-release": I can't help but note my last purchase V7 N2 consisted entirely of 12 reprinted scenarios & articles.

Ref "the Rift": Jim do you recall the specific year that lawsuit was filed? I read about it at the time, and I believe it lead to CH having different artwork - which I have some of, so I must have kept purchasing for awhile after the lawsuit.

 

[Sparafucil3]

Ref "Heavy Hitters": I was going to mention some of the Designers from the '90's, but I didn't want to put anyone on the spot. However, clearly early on CH was considered a "place to go" by some of the movers and shakers of the ASL Community.

I don't have the product to go look, but around its inception, everyone who was anyone creating scenarios and writing articles was doing so for CH.

Ref "the Rift": Jim do you recall the specific year that lawsuit was filed? I read about it at the time, and I believe it lead to CH having different artwork - which I have some of, so I must have kept purchasing for awhile after the lawsuit.

Late 90's I believe. I know if you look around the settlement was a matter of public record.

Edit to add: https://www.vftt.co.uk/vfttpdf/vftt16.pdf

See page 3. I think you can look up the complete finding if you really wish to. Also see pages 5 - 6.