Is CH defunct?

[Yuri0352]

Could it be that many ASL players are more 'defunct' than CH?

 

[Hutch]

Or it could be the Dollar is tighter and people are more selective in quality products.

 

[sgtstinky]

I concur Martin. Folks don't get it. Stuff takes time to craft and create - and fine-tune.

If we rush stuff onto the market place before it's ready, the product will play rather wonky. It takes legit time to craft a heavily researched product. They can surf other outlets in the meantime. I know, because I've been helping Wayne Poniewaz with season creation for SAT. When I help Wayne, we can't just rush a product onto the public because people are anxious for said item.

It takes research and painstaking effort.

The only time spent by Ray is coming up with new titles and cover art, this may sound easy, but when you are on the 53rd version of the same thing true talent is required.

 

[kdalton]

That's how you get yourself banned from the newsletter.

I was already excited, you don't have to sell me.

 

[kdalton]

Being old isn't for sissies.
Bette Davis

No doubt. I have a knee replacement tentatively schedule for December. It's from doing Lambada - The Forbidden Dance back in the eighties.

 

[sdennis]

No doubt. I have a knee replacement tentatively schedule for December. It's from doing Lambada - The Forbidden Dance back in the eighties.

I hope yours goes better than mine! I am 6 weeks out of a partial knee replacement and it's been a miserable 6 weeks for sure!

 

[Gunner Scott]

ya I'm surprised ch is still around I thought for sure old boy would go the way of the dino's by now. So I guess there are still people out there buying his stuff?

 

[Mongoose1]

At one point CH was putting out decent material, and at times had the only new products coming out,but now it seems like quantity over quality is their game. With all the official items coming out and In the pipeline why bother with substandard crap.? RIP CH

 

[MajorDomo]

I learned the ASL rules somewhat by solo playing many of the 48 or so scenarios of the CH All American pack.

Also enjoyed the Tractor Works module ( despite the unders!ized map hex size). IIRC, there was also a Tigers to the Front module that I enjoyed.

However after a few bad experiences with later products, I stopped buying CH stuff.

There was a fear decades ago that the pipeline of ASL scenarios would dry up. That has proven to be false as I have more unplayed scenarios than remaining life left to play them.

So, CH once had an appeal to me, which like many things is in the past.

 

[thedrake]

Not only are they recycling modules but also cranking out a ton of Modern ASL stuff, all at ridiculous prices.

 

[FJCruiser]

Not only are they recycling modules but also cranking out a ton of Modern ASL stuff, all at ridiculous prices.

That's not fair. They are all selling stuff at ridiculous prices. Take a look at Advanced Fire prices as an example. They are out of site just like the rest of them, MMP, Bounding Fire and the rest. I think that Lone Canuck may still be selling things at reasonable prices. It's hard to justify paying those large amounts of money for anything anymore. Even the new AP22 is $50.00 with tax and shipping. Why not just play the new scenarios on existing maps. How may maps are out there?? Why do we need 3 new maps for 10 scenarios. That just jacks the price way up. Anyway, just my opinion.

 

[Sparafucil3]

That's not fair. They are all selling stuff at ridiculous prices. Take a look at Advanced Fire prices as an example. They are out of site just like the rest of them, MMP, Bounding Fire and the rest. I think that Lone Canuck may still be selling things at reasonable prices. It's hard to justify paying those large amounts of money for anything anymore. Even the new AP22 is $50.00 with tax and shipping. Why not just play the new scenarios on existing maps. How may maps are out there?? Why do we need 3 new maps for 10 scenarios. That just jacks the price way up. Anyway, just my opinion.

Scenario only packs generally don't sell as well. That could be demand or that could be people copying and sharing scenarios.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

That's not fair. They are all selling stuff at ridiculous prices. Take a look at Advanced Fire prices as an example. They are out of site just like the rest of them, MMP, Bounding Fire and the rest. I think that Lone Canuck may still be selling things at reasonable prices. It's hard to justify paying those large amounts of money for anything anymore. Even the new AP22 is $50.00 with tax and shipping. Why not just play the new scenarios on existing maps. How may maps are out there?? Why do we need 3 new maps for 10 scenarios. That just jacks the price way up. Anyway, just my opinion.

There’s a slight difference, based on my personal experience.

The modules I am involved with often takes 10+ years from conceptualization to developing to playtesting to getting ready for publishing. If folks are truly charging for their work, most modules are still on the “bargain” side.

On the other hand, if a publisher is merely flipping existing modules with different packaging and different titles, you are talking about different “business models”.

Now, if you are expecting to pay a lower price because of less cardboard without maps, I think we might be unfairly discounting all the work, time and effort put into all the aforementioned effort that goes into designs.

But if you are happy with economical scenarios playable on existing maps, you already have a way to do it - the DIY system in Chapter H.

 

[FJCruiser]

There’s a slight difference, based on my personal experience.

The modules I am involved with often takes 10+ years from conceptualization to developing to playtesting to getting ready for publishing. If folks are truly charging for their work, most modules are still on the “bargain” side.

On the other hand, if a publisher is merely flipping existing modules with different packaging and different titles, you are talking about different “business models”.

The bargain side??? You must be loaded. I do agree with the renaming of existing packs. On the other hand I have bought a few of these because I didn't have the originals and the new one are better to look at with better maps.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

The bargain side??? You must be loaded. I do agree with the renaming of existing packs. On the other hand I have bought a few of these because I didn't have the originals and the new one are better to look at with better maps.

$150 over 10 years is $15 per year of work, and of course not all the money goes into rewarding the worker(s).

I think it’s worthwhile paying that. But no, not loaded. I haven’t been able to afford new modules for the last 3-4 years.

 

[Sparafucil3]

The bargain side??? You must be loaded. I do agree with the renaming of existing packs. On the other hand I have bought a few of these because I didn't have the originals and the new one are better to look at with better maps.

Bargain side in the sense of what it takes for development. My research materials for my piece of AP22 cost me close to $400. I spent about 10 hours fleshing out the units and OB for each scenario. I spent another 5 to 10 hours researching Gary's work (as he did mine) to make sure we are reasonably representing the units present. Even then, it is never enough. Then there is the playtesting. I reckon that represents 20 - 50 hours of my time for each scenario. I play mine once on my own, pushing counters, make sure entry and exit feels right, making sure the force mix feels right. Then we play them together twice, once as each side. Then we discuss changes and modifications. Then we play it twice again, once as each side. Discuss changes and modifications. This continues until we feel they are "done". Then we send it to external play testers to confirm. I doubt they invest the time Gary and I do but their time is precious and not to be wasted. Good feedback from quality players is invaluable. Then there is final layout and submission. None of this cost is factored into the price you pay at the register.

So yes, it is a bargain. In many ways, the ASL you play is a gift from developers. I can't imagine ANY of us are recouping our cost for materials, let along our time.

I am not asking for thanks or recognition. ASL relies on people submitting stuff simply because they love doing it. If developers, play testers, editors, and reviewers got paid even minimum wage the price of ASL would rival a car payment.

Even then, it would be a bargain if you think in terms dollars spent divided by hours played.

 

[Actionjick]

Bargain side in the sense of what it takes for development. My research materials for my piece of AP22 cost me close to $400. I spent about 10 hours fleshing out the units and OB for each scenario. I spent another 5 to 10 hours researching Gary's work (as he did mine) to make sure we are reasonably representing the units present. Even then, it is never enough. Then there is the playtesting. I reckon that represents 20 - 50 hours of my time for each scenario. I play mine once on my own, pushing counters, make sure entry and exit feels right, making sure the force mix feels right. Then we play them together twice, once as each side. Then we discuss changes and modifications. Then we play it twice again, once as each side. Discuss changes and modifications. This continues until we feel they are "done". Then we send it to external play testers to confirm. I doubt they invest the time Gary and I do but their time is precious and not to be wasted. Good feedback from quality players is invaluable. Then there is final layout and submission. None of this cost is factored into the price you pay at the register.

So yes, it is a bargain. In many ways, the ASL you play is a gift from developers. I can't imagine ANY of us are recouping our cost for materials, let along our time.

A considerable amount of time, effort, and money put into your product. From what I have seen AP 22 was very well received so congratulations to you both.

 

[Sparafucil3]

A considerable amount of time, effort, and money put into your product. From what I have seen AP 22 was very well received so congratulations to you both.

I give the credit to Gary. He is a smart egg. He also had to cover some of my work when I went into the hospital. Guy Chaney stepped in to help a lot too.

 

[Mongoose1]

I never felt like there was a money grab from anything that I have purchased from MMP, not so much from CH.

 

[Actionjick]

I give the credit to Gary. He is a smart egg. He also had to cover some of my work when I went into the hospital. Guy Chaney stepped in to help a lot too.

Gary is rather amazing, as is Guy. You're no slouch yourself.