Human Wave - should it be excluded sometimes?

[Blaze]

If you have a lot of Russian conscripts that can see the enemy ten or so hexes away it is a good way to close up with 8 MF instead of 3/5 MF. Then you can do it again.

Well, yeah. Who cares about Conscripts anyways! "When the man in front of you dies, take the rifle from him and use the clip you were issued. Continue to fire"!

Da svidania

 

[Vic Provost]

Well, yeah. Who cares about Conscripts anyways! "When the man in front of you dies, take the rifle from him and use the clip you were issued. Continue to fire"!

Da svidania

The Russian armies 'training' continues to this very day in Ukraine. Once incompetent, always incompetent (Exception: WW2 from Stalingrad to Berlin).

 

[Larry]

The Russians transferred the burden of hard fighting (and human waves) as early and as often as possible, dating back to WWI. Norman Davies likes to remind people that the Soviet Union's staggering WWII casualty count likely includes more non-Russians (Kyrgyz, Kazakhs, Mongols, Turkmen, Uzbeks, Ukrainians, etc.) than Russians. The Russians like to take credit for sacrifice in war, but for the most part that sacrifice was borne by conquered peoples (Soviets) who were mis-labeled as Russians.

The last game I played with Piotr Rogenholt ... he said he referred to the "Russians" as the "Soviets" for similar reasons.

 

[JRKrejsa]

The last game I played with Piotr Rogenholt ... he said he referred to the "Russians" as the "Soviets" for similar reasons.

I always do.

 

[PresterJohn]

I'm sure the use of "Russian" in SL is resulting from the German based literature in use back in the 50's thru 70's which used Russian as a label rather than Soviet. German language translation of Soviets might be something like "commitee member" perhaps. I don't know.
But the point is German terminology was an "r" for captured Soviet equipment, for example. And I also expect this has been explained before too.

 

[Pitman]

I've used numberless banzai charges, and some Chinese human wave attacks, but I probably haven't done a Soviet human wave attack since 2004 or 2005 or so. I seem to forget about it when playing them.

 

[Pitman]

The Russians transferred the burden of hard fighting (and human waves) as early and as often as possible, dating back to WWI. Norman Davies likes to remind people that the Soviet Union's staggering WWII casualty count likely includes more non-Russians (Kyrgyz, Kazakhs, Mongols, Turkmen, Uzbeks, Ukrainians, etc.) than Russians. The Russians like to take credit for sacrifice in war, but for the most part that sacrifice was borne by conquered peoples (Soviets) who were mis-labeled as Russians.

Norman Davies is often not reliable, so I would not accept this contention without firm citations.

 

[Paul John]

The Russians transferred the burden of hard fighting (and human waves) as early and as often as possible, dating back to WWI. Norman Davies likes to remind people that the Soviet Union's staggering WWII casualty count likely includes more non-Russians (Kyrgyz, Kazakhs, Mongols, Turkmen, Uzbeks, Ukrainians, etc.) than Russians. The Russians like to take credit for sacrifice in war, but for the most part that sacrifice was borne by conquered peoples (Soviets) who were mis-labeled as Russians.

Sort of like the 'British' counters we push about. Commonly colonials of one sort or another, but usually identified as such at least.

 

[Paul John]

I've used numberless banzai charges, and some Chinese human wave attacks, but I probably haven't done a Soviet human wave attack since 2004 or 2005 or so. I seem to forget about it when playing them.

I am very similar, but the main reason is the number of squads required to get it going. I seem to rarely have that lined up.

 

[GeorgeBates]

Human Wave, Banzai Charge and Bayonet Charge can all be very effective when conducted in Light Woods.

 

[Pitman]

Human Wave, Banzai Charge and Bayonet Charge can all be very effective when conducted in Light Woods.

Exactly how many scenarios have you played with light woods?

 

[GeorgeBates]

Exactly how many scenarios have you played with light woods?

Dozens. Working on the Winter War scenario rebuilds.
Plus some designs in which Light Woods is used to simulate Malayan rubber groves.

 

[PresterJohn]

EXC: that grudge rule known as early war soviet doctrine. I have that rule with a white hot passion. -- jim

Why should a published rule (A25.212) be referred to as a "grudge rule"?

 

['Ol Fezziwig]

EXC: that grudge rule known as early war soviet doctrine. I have that rule with a white hot passion. -- jim

I'm very fond of that rule. Given the Soviet blundering in Finland, it's totally appropriate.

 

[Cpl Uhl]

They are still a colonial empire after all...

Still seems to be the case nowadays as well.

von Marwitz
[/QUOTE

 

[von Marwitz]

I'm very fond of that rule. Given the Soviet blundering in Finland, it's totally appropriate.

In some scenarios, I perfectly emulate this even without that rule being in effect at all...

von Marwitz

 

[Martin Mayers]

It's asinine. This is a game of fiction within a very loose framework of World War Two. If you get in a position to utilise a HW with all the risks it carries then you should be allowed to do so in all but the rarest circumstances. Were human waves a standard tactic of the Soviets during, say the Battle of Berlin? - probably not. But amongst the hundreds of small actions within that grand battle I'm sure there exists sixty guys, with a particularly aggressive leader who decided "let's charge the darned machine gun nest". That's what HWs generally are in ASL - small, company sized, charges wherein the side employing the charge had perhaps a higher tolerance for individual risk/loss than you might have with other nationalities.

 

[wrongway149]

Bayonet Charge (W.6) is a step in this direction. No reason it can't be applied by SSR in specific situations during the '30s and '40s.

I even read about one in Normandy,
(Scenario under construction.)

 

[Martin Mayers]

I even read about one in Normandy,
(Scenario under construction.)

14th June 1982 on Mount Tumbledown, Falkland Islands by 2nd Scots Guards and the Regiment of Gurkhas if you want even more esotericism.

 

[Martin Mayers]

The Russian armies 'training' continues to this very day in Ukraine. Once incompetent, always incompetent (Exception: WW2 from Stalingrad to Berlin).

Genuinely out of interest. Do you think this is the case or do you think Western propaganda is playing a merry tune. Like, those Russians have been on the cusp of defeat pretty much since the war there began and yet, they recently booted the Ukrainians out of Kursk right?