How to get the darn rules to sink in...

[Alan Hume]

Okay, well, it kind of registered with me when I was playing with my buddy John the other day that, my rules knowledge, is very, very bad

I mean, I first started playing around 2009 or so when my good buddy Rod Lobban introduced me to the game (I had always just been a miniatures, and D&D, player up to that point, 15mm WW2 mainly, FOW etc.) but, other than picking up the very basics I have not really become very capable with the game system at all in all the years since.

I have read the rulebook umpteen times (and marked it up so much with a highlighter pen that it is almost solid yellow inside??!!)
but, while it seems to make sense at the time, it doesn't stick.

I am Autistic (I was only diagnosed, very late, only just the other year and I will turn 57 in November, my brother reckons I may also have ADHD and Dysgraphia, but in order to get a diagnosis for that, according to my GP I will have to wait 10 years???!!! so she says "what's the point".

Anyhow, I don't know but perhaps those conditions have an impact on my ability to learn the rules, I'm not sure, but, certainly, I keep trying

I know I ought to spend some time reading the excellent articles published by Jim Bishop, along with Jim Stahler (and The Two Half-Squads) I reckon he has brought so much great teaching to the table (I have been buying the excellent ASL companion published by Xavier and Le Franc Tireur so that's a good start I think)

I used to regularly watch ASL tutorials online (and I think I need to get back to that) but which ones are the best, there are so many now (which I guess can only be a good thing)

As I say, once I concentrate a particular rule will, for the most part, make sense, but I do wish the game was not quite so complicated (am I right in thinking that Ed Greenwood specifically designed it that way in order to make it stand out from all the 'fast play' games that were being produced at the time?)

but retention is my problem (I guess, as the guys keep telling me, I need to play more, play and play and play)

I've stuck with it at least (I guess WW2 is my 'Autistic Thing', my dad was in WW2 so I guess he sparked my interest when, as a child, he would tell me stories of North Africa and suchlike (plus all the WW2 movies and comics that seemed to saturate everything here in the UK in the 1970's) and intend to keep trying
but, sheesh, it's hard going

Oops, I've just noticed that I should have started this in the RULES QUESTIONS/DISCUSSION posts, sorry guys

 

[bendizoid]

Okay, well, it kind of registered with me when I was playing with my buddy John the other day that, my rules knowledge, is very, very bad

I mean, I first started playing around 2009 or so when my good buddy Rod Lobban introduced me to the game (I had always just been a miniatures, and D&D, player up to that point, 15mm WW2 mainly, FOW etc.) but, other than picking up the very basics I have not really become very capable with the game system at all in all the years since.

I have read the rulebook umpteen times (and marked it up so much with a highlighter pen that it is almost solid yellow inside??!!)
but, while it seems to make sense at the time, it doesn't stick.

I am Autistic (I was only diagnosed, very late, only just the other year and I will turn 57 in November, my brother reckons I may also have ADHD and Dysgraphia, but in order to get a diagnosis for that, according to my GP I will have to wait 10 years???!!! so she says "what's the point".

Anyhow, I don't know but perhaps those conditions have an impact on my ability to learn the rules, I'm not sure, but, certainly, I keep trying

I know I ought to spend some time reading the excellent articles published by Jim Bishop, along with Jim Stahler (and The Two Half-Squads) I reckon he has brought so much great teaching to the table (I have been buying the excellent ASL companion published by Xavier and Le Franc Tireur so that's a good start I think)

I used to regularly watch ASL tutorials online (and I think I need to get back to that) but which ones are the best, there are so many now (which I guess can only be a good thing)

As I say, once I concentrate a particular rule will, for the most part, make sense, but I do wish the game was not quite so complicated (am I right in thinking that Ed Greenwood specifically designed it that way in order to make it stand out from all the 'fast play' games that were being produced at the time?)

but retention is my problem (I guess, as the guys keep telling me, I need to play more, play and play and play)

I've stuck with it at least (I guess WW2 is my 'Autistic Thing', my dad was in WW2 so I guess he sparked my interest when, as a child, he would tell me stories of North Africa and suchlike (plus all the WW2 movies and comics that seemed to saturate everything here in the UK in the 1970's) and intend to keep trying
but, sheesh, it's hard going

Oops, I've just noticed that I should have started this in the RULES QUESTIONS/DISCUSSION posts, sorry guys

We all struggle with the rules. It’s written like a bunch of gobbly gook so yes it’s a challenge. Maybe play simpler scenarios and relax and enjoy a little. There is plenty of ‘strategery’ in lots of those infantry only ones. It may take paragraphs to illustrate a simple, common sensical rule but once it can be visualized then it gets ‘locked in’.
Sometimes I use postee notes on the board the remember stuff, like ‘MUD’ or ‘All buildings are wooden’ ect…

 

[Actionjick]

We all struggle with the rules. It’s written like a bunch of gobbly gook so yes it’s a challenge. Maybe play simpler scenarios and relax and enjoy a little. There is plenty of ‘strategery’ in lots of those infantry only ones. It make take paragraphs to illustrate a simple, common sensical rule but once it can be visualized then it gets ‘locked in’.
Sometimes I use postee notes on the board the remember stuff, like ‘MUD’ or ‘All buildings are wooden’ ect…

Good advice.

 

[clubby]

Do you play a lot Alan? Some people can read the rules and it won't sink it but you see it applied a couple times and it sticks.

 

[Alan Hume]

We all struggle with the rules. It’s written like a bunch of gobbly gook so yes it’s a challenge. Maybe play simpler scenarios and relax and enjoy a little. There is plenty of ‘strategery’ in lots of those infantry only ones. It make take paragraphs to illustrate a simple, common sensical rule but once it can be visualized then it gets ‘locked in’.
Sometimes I use postee notes on the board the remember stuff, like ‘MUD’ or ‘All buildings are wooden’ ect…

Thanks, good advice I like the postal notes idea

 

[Alan Hume]

Good advice.

absolutely

 

[Alan Hume]

Do you play a lot Alan? Some people can read the rules and it won't sink it but you see it applied a couple times and it sticks.

Being honest, nowhere near as much as I used to (I should have a game on this afternoon with John though hopefully)
I really do need to listen to my friends and try and start playing more (and consistently)

Some of it has stuck, just through play as you say, but the stuff that doesn't come up very often??... well, let's just say that's what the rulebook is there for

 

[Actionjick]

Okay, well, it kind of registered with me when I was playing with my buddy John the other day that, my rules knowledge, is very, very bad

I mean, I first started playing around 2009 or so when my good buddy Rod Lobban introduced me to the game (I had always just been a miniatures, and D&D, player up to that point, 15mm WW2 mainly, FOW etc.) but, other than picking up the very basics I have not really become very capable with the game system at all in all the years since.

I have read the rulebook umpteen times (and marked it up so much with a highlighter pen that it is almost solid yellow inside??!!)
but, while it seems to make sense at the time, it doesn't stick.

I am Autistic (I was only diagnosed, very late, only just the other year and I will turn 57 in November, my brother reckons I may also have ADHD and Dysgraphia, but in order to get a diagnosis for that, according to my GP I will have to wait 10 years???!!! so she says "what's the point".

Anyhow, I don't know but perhaps those conditions have an impact on my ability to learn the rules, I'm not sure, but, certainly, I keep trying

I know I ought to spend some time reading the excellent articles published by Jim Bishop, along with Jim Stahler (and The Two Half-Squads) I reckon he has brought so much great teaching to the table (I have been buying the excellent ASL companion published by Xavier and Le Franc Tireur so that's a good start I think)

I used to regularly watch ASL tutorials online (and I think I need to get back to that) but which ones are the best, there are so many now (which I guess can only be a good thing)

As I say, once I concentrate a particular rule will, for the most part, make sense, but I do wish the game was not quite so complicated (am I right in thinking that Ed Greenwood specifically designed it that way in order to make it stand out from all the 'fast play' games that were being produced at the time?)

but retention is my problem (I guess, as the guys keep telling me, I need to play more, play and play and play)

I've stuck with it at least (I guess WW2 is my 'Autistic Thing', my dad was in WW2 so I guess he sparked my interest when, as a child, he would tell me stories of North Africa and suchlike (plus all the WW2 movies and comics that seemed to saturate everything here in the UK in the 1970's) and intend to keep trying
but, sheesh, it's hard going

Oops, I've just noticed that I should have started this in the RULES QUESTIONS/DISCUSSION posts, sorry guys

Don't feel like the Lone Stranger. I am a use it or lose it kind of guy. At one point I knew the rules fairly well but I was reading the ASLRB almost every day. Now I remember hardly anything. On the other hand Fish had an almost photographic memory when it came to games and rules. Everyone has different abilities.

As Bendizoid said just play and enjoy the game. Few people, if any, have a complete knowledge of the rules. The game is too complex. Sometimes when leafing through the rules I wonder how I ever played the damn game. I had a ton of fun trying to learn it and it carried me through some tough times.

If you want some specific advice I would say to choose one rule and attempt to master it. For example I chose Platoon Movement and became ok at it. Except for a scenario against McGrath but I won't open old wounds.

Perhaps by mastering one rule it will give you the framework for mastering others. Regardless just play, play, and read. Aside from that just relax and enjoy the ride.

Good gunnin to you.

 

[Actionjick]

Being honest, nowhere near as much as I used to (I should have a game on this afternoon with John though hopefully)
I really do need to listen to my friends and try and start playing more (and consistently)

Some of it has stuck, just through play as you say, but the stuff that doesn't come up very often??... well, let's just say that's what the rulebook is there for

Exactly. Play more dammit!

 

[Actionjick]

The quick answer is repetition.

 

[Actionjick]

Don't feel like the Lone Stranger. I am a use it or lose it kind of guy. At one point I knew the rules fairly well but I was reading the ASLRB almost every day. Now I remember hardly anything. On the other hand Fish had an almost photographic memory when it came to games and rules. Everyone has different abilities.

As Bendizoid said just play and enjoy the game. Few people, if any, have a complete knowledge of the rules. The game is too complex. Sometimes when leafing through the rules I wonder how I ever played the damn game. I had a ton of fun trying to learn it and it carried me through some tough times.

If you want some specific advice I would say to choose one rule and attempt to master it. For example I chose Platoon Movement and became ok at it. Except for a scenario against McGrath but I won't open old wounds.

Perhaps by mastering one rule it will give you the framework for mastering others. Regardless just play, play, and read. Aside from that just relax and enjoy the ride.

Good gunnin to you.

The scenario was Italian Brothers. I didn't notice till after he beat me that his AFVs were Radioless and he had not been using Platoon Movement.

ALWAYS CHECK YOUR OPPONENTS OB!

Have to go, this scab just started bleeding .

Luv ya Mike you magnificent jick!

 

[Alan Hume]

The scenario was Italian Brothers. I didn't notice till after he beat me that his AFVs were Radioless and he had not been using Platoon Movement.

ALWAYS CHECK YOUR OPPONENTS OB!

Have to go, this scab just started bleeding .

Luv ya Mike you magnificent jick!

Thanks,
Hope the scab is okay
Typing on my phone (at 1.30am UK time) so apologies for the short reply.

But yeah, you make a great point
I will do the best I can and then just roll with it

 

[bendizoid]

The scenario was Italian Brothers. I didn't notice till after he beat me that his AFVs were Radioless and he had not been using Platoon Movement.

ALWAYS CHECK YOUR OPPONENTS OB!

Have to go, this scab just started bleeding .

Luv ya Mike you magnificent jick!

That was when we were young and super competitive. From my years of experience playing Mike he plays a fair game and I would encourage everybody to play Mike at least once if you get the chance, nobody plays like McGrath. Just the dexterity in the way he smoothly moves his units is unique. He once said “ASL is the greatest game ever devised”. Well said.

 

[Michael R]

The most important thing is to have fun. if that requires simpler scenarios, so be it.

 

[von Marwitz]

Sometimes I use postee notes on the board the remember stuff, like ‘MUD’ or ‘All buildings are wooden’ ect…

von Marwitz

 

[Actionjick]

That was when we were young and super competitive. From my years of experience playing Mike he plays a fair game and I would encourage everybody to play Mike at least once if you get the chance, nobody plays like McGrath. Just the dexterity in the way he smoothly moves his units is unique. He once said “ASL is the greatest game ever devised”. Well said.

I totally agree! I've played a couple or three thousand scenarios and that's one of the few I remember. What a great player.

I'm proud to say that I have been beaten by all the old school greats. Enjoyed all of the ass whuppin's. What a great game. Consistently get your ass kicked and go back for more. Is that masochistic?

 

[Actionjick]

View attachment 35135



von Marwitz

I luvs me some Far Side.

My favorite is the Navy ants one. Of course I am a bit prejudiced.

Larsen was fantastic. Far Side and Calvin and Hobbes were the only reason I read the paper. Good times.

 

[Alan Hume]

That was when we were young and super competitive. From my years of experience playing Mike he plays a fair game and I would encourage everybody to play Mike at least once if you get the chance, nobody plays like McGrath. Just the dexterity in the way he smoothly moves his units is unique. He once said “ASL is the greatest game ever devised”. Well said.

Yep, I reckon there are a few legendary players out there and your friend is most certainly one of them

ASL is a great game but, boy, does it make my head hurt LOL

But seriously, half the appeal of ASL for me is that it covers absolutely EVERYTHING, any action (well, practically) fought during WW2 can be refought on the kitchen table. I really LOVE the way you can buy distinctive modules for EVERY nation that fought in the war (and HASL modules for particular battles - I just wish MMP would release an official Berlin one sometime. Probably never happen but one can dream)

Short of going back to miniatures gaming (and I had to get rid of my MASSIVE 15mm WW2 collection as I have no space, I just live in a studio flat/apartment)
I can't think of any other way to game whatever theatre of war captures your particular attention this week. Certainly I can't think of any other boardgame that is even half as comprehensive.

I guess ASL Starter Kit will become the defacto go to game for folks who feel that ASL is just too much but still want all the choice and variety that ASL has to offer (I am guessing that, if it doesn't already, Starter Kit will at some point offer ALL the nationalities and a chock of HASL's to the eager Starter kit hordes)

But, yeah, great game, just very, very challenging

 

[Alan Hume]

The most important thing is to have fun. if that requires simpler scenarios, so be it.

Yep, I must admit ASL (even at it's most infuriating) has never been anything less than a barrel of laughs and a lot of fun
(what other game does the bloody commissar blow your guys away in for not stepping up to the plate?)

 

[Alan Hume]

Oh, well, it's 04.45am over here in Scotland now and I still haven't got to sleep
Those darn shifts I work are taking their toll on me I think

Sigh, it is what it is, seeing as how this is the time I would ordinarily get up for an early shift I think I may as well abandon any thoughts of sleep and just get up
I might put 'Generation War' in the blu-ray player and see what all the hype is about (I may have seen it years ago, I don't know, it's been a while)

3 years til I can take early retirement (though everyone tells me I can't afford it) and I am counting every bloomin' day