Geoboards

[Dr Zaius]

I'm very interested in doing something HASL on Normandy but can't come up with a good idea. The 'Mace' is an interesting idea. I've been reading a bit on Mortain too.

The fighting in and around St. Lo was very fierce and might make for an interesting game. There are a lot of good maps and references for this action too.

 

[sgtono]

What about the Ft. Roule area in the Cherbourg area?

Keith

 

[Pitman]

enough normandy, already

 

[Hexagoner]

I wouldn't mind something in Greece/Malta/Crete or the Sidi Rezegh area in Libya. Perhaps part of the battle for the Gazala line, like the 150th (?) Bde Box. Hasn't been too much HASL done on those era battles.

Hex

 

[jasperdog3329]

Historical map and module ideas

Ideas for new historical maps and actions. I think there are a couple of criteria for these: 1. variety versus historical publications already on the market; 2. an engagement that stayed relatively static for at least a few days to enable a map to contain the action.

Re critieria 1: a list of what has already been published:
A93b Gavutu-Tanambogo Japanese vs. U.S. Marines PTO small islands
A97 Nhpum Ga Japanese vs. U.S. Raiders PTO jungle/hill
J2 Kakazu Ridge Japanese vs. U.S. PTO hill/open ground

RB German vs. Russian ETO urban/industrial
KP I & II German vs. U.S. ETO rural woods/fields/villages
PB German vs. British Elite ETO village/field
BRT Japanese vs. U.S. Marines PTO beach/reef/bunkers
ABTF German vs. British Elite ETO urban
OWHS Japanese vs. U.S. Marine PTO jungle/hill
OVHS German vs. Canadian ETO rural/agricultural

Add what seems to be a well regarded and widely purchased TPP module:
OtO German vs. Russian ETO rural

Coming or in playtest
VotG German vs. Russian ETO urban/industrial
Ortona German vs. Canadian ETO urban/urban outskirts
Slaughter at Ponryi (sp?) German vs. Russian ETO rural/village - read the playtest AAR at this forum - sounds like a super-OtO

So, I see gaps for an early Africa module of Italian/German vs. British/Australian/New Zealanders. If many think that desert wouldn't be popular, perhaps then Tunisia where much of the terrain doesn't have to be desert rules and do late Africa German vs. U.S. or British. What about Kasserine Pass or other engagements in that area?

Another gap is Normandy or the break-out from Normandy. I have two suggestions both of which would feature a ton of Allied air support. They might be executable with little in the way of new counters so some unique elements could be added within a desired module price point.
A. Mortain Aug. 6-12 centered on Hill 317 featuring the U.S. 30th and 35th Infantry Divisions vs. the likes of the German 2nd and 116th Panzer and 1st and 2nd SS Panzer Divisions. Juicy new counters: actual historical plane types as per an effort by VFFT.
B. Falaise Aug. 16-25 or 20-25. I think this could be quite a unique historical module. The juice: two map areas representing the two sides of the Allied envelopment trying to link up. Success on one map would have implications for the Grand-CG on the other map happening semi-simultaneously. On one side you have two Canadian infantry divisions, the 4th Canadian Armoured Division, the 1st Polish Armored Division, and the British 51st Highland Division and their attached 33rd Armoured Brigade. Hill 262 "The Mace" would be a prominent feature of this map (or maps). On the other map(s) you have the U.S. 79th and 90th Infantry Divisions, the 5th U.S. Armored Division and initially the 2nd French Armored Division although they were diverted to Paris. German opposition is scattered groups from thirty to forty divisions trapped in the Falaise pocket and the 2nd and 12th SS Panzer counterattacking to keep the neck open.

 

[paulkenny]

SNIP
- ‘boards need to wait for scenario development’
A: Not true. It’s the other way around – scenario development follows terrain design. Designers of scenarios thrive on seeing new terrain to inspire new design, and there’s many battles that they’d like to design but lack adequate terrain choices. Ask em.
- ‘Don’t do new overlays / Do overlays / Do half-board overlays’
A: Small overlays are not used much by players it appears. I wish that were not true because I (and guys like Tom Repetti too) have oodles of overlay ideas to use on those underutilized boards. Large half-board ‘overlays’ are good ideas – but see how infrequently even the existing ones have been used. All of this is too bad and discouraging – but until designers use them more frequently (big or small overlays) and players stop complaining about them, they will probably not be designed. Believe me, if MMP made them and guys bought them, I’d paint them. Of all the overlay ideas, I like the idea many guys suggest – make some overlays that will make the underutilized boards useful. Tom Repetti’s ideas are great, Wolkey’s ideas too.
- ‘redesign the classical boards’
A: Good idea. I’ve considered redoing a few (2,3,4) and tweak the terrain enough but not too much to prohibit players from substituting them in play. Include some large overlays to make them more versatile.
Overall, I really appreciate the positive responses and encouragement. Like you, I take our hobby seriously as far as trying to make sure we have the best for our use. No shortcuts.
Don :bandit:

I totally agree with the scenario development comes partly from new terrain. I loved getting the new boards 48-52, it really gives great ideas when developing scenarios, new vistas open up and scenarios seem fresh when built on newer unutilized boards, ala bd 47 the best and most underutilized board out there.

BTW I am not a big fan of overlay ridden scenarios, too much gets lost in the setup, game mechanics are effected, although VASL does fix this to an extent.

 

[paulkenny]

I have several overlays designed modifying several boards, and they will be released someday. However, I would worry about a pack that has nothing but the overlays with one associated scenario. Would scenario designers continue to use them down the road and make them worth the while????

Chas

I doubt it, look how infrequently the large hill overlays are used.

 

[paulkenny]

Well, perhaps it is a marketing problem then.

Hey scenario developers, if you are reading this see if any of these get your juices flowing:
http://www.mindspring.com/~tqr/trmaps/trmapsintro.html

I have a scenario somewhere using TR3, or half atleast, features Japanese cavalry iirc.

 

[paulkenny]

>Would MMP want to print them? Would the majority want to buy them? Until those questions are better answered, the overlays may not see the light. They would be easy enough to do, and I'd even be able to somewhat closely match the various colors and styles of the different geoboards so as to make the overlays blend in well. It's up to MMP.

Send out your thoughts about these board 3, 6, 13, 14, 24 overlays to 10-15 designers (Shelling, Smith, Pitman, Kenney, etc.) and ask them specifically if they have a scenario in the works that could use one of these boards with the overlays you have in mind.

The designers/scenarios are going to drive this project. If you can come up with 12-15 good scenarios that use these overlays then create the Action Pack. Not all the overlays need to be used. For instance, you can have 10 scenarios and 20 board altering overlays. Once these overlays have been published by MMP and are 'officially' released in an AP the other designers are going to use them.

Unfortunately to an extent it becomes a circular discussion, we dont design scenarios until we see board/overlays but we are looking for board/ovelays ideas for scenario concepts in the mind of some scenario designers. I would that new board/overlay options should expand the existing terrain for ASL (guess this is fairly obvious). I suppose making new versions of old stuff would be valuable too, the new city boards are interesting and useful. I tend to prefer the concept of new boards as opposed to board specific overlays as I think that offers more long term versatility and for me at least am more likely to include it in my design consideration.

 

[paulkenny]

I think an extension to the board 12 village to include some farmland and get rid of the gullies would be helpful - that board needs a facelift I think and an overlay would be helpful. I seem to have fought over it almost as often as bd 10.

Adam.

I agree here. board 12 village is interesting but the approach from the A and GG hexrows is rather dull, especially from the side away from the cemetary. WOuld love to see some transition terrain from the village to the board edge.

That being said I really like the board 49 is it? Transition to city board, I like the concept and have seen one for a transition to a village that is of the same concept and very useful.

 

[paulkenny]

Ideas for new historical maps and actions. I think there are a couple of criteria for these: 1. variety versus historical publications already on the market; 2. an engagement that stayed relatively static for at least a few days to enable a map to contain the action.

Re critieria 1: a list of what has already been published:
A93b Gavutu-Tanambogo Japanese vs. U.S. Marines PTO small islands
A97 Nhpum Ga Japanese vs. U.S. Raiders PTO jungle/hill
J2 Kakazu Ridge Japanese vs. U.S. PTO hill/open ground

RB German vs. Russian ETO urban/industrial
KP I & II German vs. U.S. ETO rural woods/fields/villages
PB German vs. British Elite ETO village/field
BRT Japanese vs. U.S. Marines PTO beach/reef/bunkers
ABTF German vs. British Elie ETO urban
OWHS Japanese vs. U.S. Marine PTO jungle/hill
OVHS German vs. Canadian ETO rural/agricultural

Add what seems to be a well regarded and widely purchased TPP module:
OtO German vs. Russian ETO rural

Coming or in playtest
VotG German vs. Russian ETO urban/industrial
Ortona German vs. Canadian ETO urban/urban outskirts

So, I see gaps for an early Africa module of Italian/German vs. British/Australian/New Zealanders. If many think that desert wouldn't be popular, perhaps then Tunisia where much of the terrain doesn't have to be desert rules and do late Africa German vs. U.S. or British. What about Kasserine Pass or other engagements in that area?

Another gap is Normandy or the break-out from Normandy. I have two suggestions both of which would feature a ton of Allied air support. They might be executable with little in the way of new counters so some unique elements could be added within a desired module price point.
A. Mortain Aug. 6-12 centered on Hill 317 featuring the U.S. 30th and 35th Infantry Divisions vs. the likes of the German 2nd and 116th Panzer and 1st and 2nd SS Panzer Divisions. Juicy new counters: actual historical plane types as per an effort by VFFT.
B. Falaise Aug. 16-25 or 20-25. I think this could be quite a unique historical module. The juice: two map areas representing the two sides of the Allied envelopment trying to link up. Success on one map would have implications for the Grand-CG on the other map happening semi-simultaneously. On one side you have two Canadian infantry divisions, the 4th Canadian Armoured Division, the 1st Polish Armored Division, and the British 51st Highland Division and their attached 33rd Armoured Brigade. Hill 262 "The Mace" would be a prominent feature of this map (or maps). On the other map(s) you have the U.S. 79th and 90th Infantry Divisions, the 5th U.S. Armored Division and initially the 2nd French Armored Division although they were diverted to Paris. German opposition is scattered groups from thirty to forty divisions trapped in the Falaise pocket and the 2nd and 12th SS Panzer counterattacking to keep the neck open.

I gave Mortain a thought or two for a PL CG a while ago, werent there a couple of hills that were defended for a couple of days, isolated americans and all? I thought that would be worthy of a Primosole Bridge sized HASL.

 

[paulkenny]

BTW sorry for the flurry of responses, never followed this thread before today and saw some interesting posts.

 

[jasperdog3329]

I gave Mortain a thought or two for a PL CG a while ago, werent there a couple of hills that were defended for a couple of days, isolated americans and all? I thought that would be worthy of a Primosole Bridge sized HASL.

Yes, that's the idea. There have been some scenarios done on it. I can't remember where I read it but one American mortar crew was down to their last round and had a German MG position constantly threatening the whole area. They fiddled and adjusted their aim, dropped the bomb down the tube and were near perfect.