Cloaking and PAATC checks

[Simon62]

We are playing a night VOTG campaign game.

We have a cloaked counter which comprises of two MMc and a SMC ldr that is attempting to advance into an enemy AFV hex.

What happens with the PAATC

a) one roll against the cloaked counter morale of 7 and if passed all units advance this seems to go against the PAATC rules in A11.6
b) Each unit in the claoked counter check seperately against their actual morale and only those that pass advance in how does this apply to the claoked status E.
c) Owning players choice of a) or b)
d) something else

If the answer is b) and one unit MMC and the leader pass the PAATC and one MMC fails what do you do about the cloaking for the ones advancing and the ones not advancing taking a PAATC is not a concealment (E1.43) and thus not a cloaking loss activity, but you can't split a single cloaking counter into 2 (E1.422)

I have read through the rules for CC against AFV and night cloaking but cannot determine the answers I could well have issed something so any rules references to backup answers would be appreciated

any thoughts welcome

Regards
Simon

 

[ScottRomanowski]

I think the 7 Morale on concealment and cloaking counters are for it is out of LOS and is attacked, or must take a PAATC to retain concealment (A12.14). The morale printed on a cloaking counter would not apply when you try to advance into CC with an AFV. I would treat is the same as when a concealed stack attempts to advance, A11.6. The leader is exempt; the MMCs must take a PAATC with their printed Morale and can use the leader's leadership DRM. The MMC that pass must advance; those that fail are pinned but keep concealment (Q&A below). If the cloaked stack must split (perhaps the leader and one MMC passed the PAATC, but the other MMC failed), I think you have the option as to which group becomes a concealed stack and which group stays with the cloaking counter, as normal when splitting units in a cloaking counter.

A11.6 & A12.141 Does a concealed unit that fails a PAATC attempting to fight into an ADJACENT hex lose concealment?
A. No; taking such a PAATC is excluded from being a Case C “other action” on the “?”-loss chart. [K33]

 

[Bjoernar]

-Each unit takes it PAATC
11.6 CC vs AN AFV: In order for a MMC to advance into a Location containing a manned unconcealed enemy AFV, it must first pass a PAATC (failure of which causes the unit to become pinned).

-No loss of cloaking on failed PAATC
1.4 CLOAKING: Only the Scenario Attacker uses Cloaking. A Cloaking counter is a “?” of any nationality not in play, and has all the characteristics of a “?” plus certain special benefits. Cloaked units are always concealed, but concealed units are not necessarily Cloaked. All rules pertaining to “?” apply to Cloaking counters except as specified otherwise herein.

-Loses cloacking if ambush failed
1.43 LOSS: Cloaked status is lost, and replaced by its unconcealed actual contents (if any), for any situation that would cause one or more of its units to lose concealment at night (1.31; 1.72), and for making any attack other than a successful Ambush. Once removed, Cloaking counters cannot be regained.

-Maybe this, until seen some other better rules arguments I will (so far at least) say that you must still remain with one cloaking counter.

1.422 STACKING: All units represented by a single Cloaking counter always move/advance as a stack—unless the owner wishes to remove the Cloaking counter and replace it with the actual concealed unit(s). A Cloaking counter may not split into two or more Cloaking counters, although two or more Cloaking counters may combine into one. The inherent parts of a Cloaking counter can break into concealed units without removing the Cloaking counter, provided an original unit remains in the Cloaking Box.

-If all pass PAATC then all under cloaking into hex, when splitting due to some advancing while some are not, one cloaking is on some unit(s) and the other unit(s) are normal concealed. It appears that you can choose who remain the cloaking counter.

 

[Simon62]

Thanks for the great answers which confirm my tjoughts b this