YOU CAN'T HANDLE... Board 86

Tuomo

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First, board 86 is available for VASL. Just fire up your VASL and the auto-updater will grab it. Thanks to Doug Rimmer for posting it. Board 85 will follow, anon. For the nonce, use board FrFA in its stead.

Second, what a nice board (86).

Third, I predict massive Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth as people encounter the several un-ignorable Woods-Building hexes on this board:

15262 15264 15265

15263

So as a Public Service, let's hash that out here. I'll go first.

If a tank wants to enter a Building-Woods hex:
  • What's the MP cost?
  • What's the Bog situation? One DR with multiple DRM? What if it fails? Where's it Bogged, in the Building or in the Woods? What if it didn't cross a Woods depiction when entering the hex, say when going from X2 into W3?
  • Can it still fall into the cellar of a single-story wooden building and/or Rubble the building?
  • If it passes the Bog Check, where would a Trail Break go?
  • If fired upon while doing this, what TEM would apply? Could it conceivably get WA (say, if fired on in 86W3 but the shot came from 86V1)?
And I'm sure there are questions about Bypass movement.

I like Combination Terrain like this, really. I just think there's room for lots of questions, and in fact I'm surprised that I can't find anything in Chapter B that specifically mentions what to do with Combination Terrain - I thought for sure there was at least a passing blurb about it?
 
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Michael Dorosh

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I like Combination Terrain like this, really. I just think there's room for lots of questions, and in fact I'm surprised that I can't find anything in Chapter B that specifically mentions what to do with Combination Terrain - I thought for sure there was at least a passing blurb about it?
A2.4 refers to "Cumulative Terrain Effects."

It's also refered to in the Index as such.
 

JR Brackin

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My best guess barring other modifiers is that it would be a minimum +6 for Bog, based on the +3 for woods and the +3 for wooden building.

For Infantry bypass that is covered in the EXC midway through A4.31. [EXC: the building in building-woods hex 2I9 can be Bypassed along the I9-J9/J9-J8 Open Ground hexsides at a cost of one MF, or along two of its four woods hexsides at a cost of two MF (for moving around the building in the woods), rather than paying the normal four MF for the hex]. I would presume if otherwise allowed vehicle bypass would be normal across OG hexsides.
 

Mister T

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This is what i remarked in another thread and this is what i got in return. Please don't thank me ?

Board 86 marks the return of the building-woods hex last seen in boards 2 and 3, with no less than 5 such hexes therein. Time to look at A4.31. A fertile ground for future Q&A.
Fertile ground for common sense.
 

von Marwitz

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What we really need is a Woods/Building/Crag hex. With a Narrow Street along two hexsides. And a Gully. At the bottom of a Cliff.
With cumulative terrain effects, the only unit which could probably have a chance to enter might be some paratroopers, that have drifted off...

von Marwitz
 

footsteps

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With cumulative terrain effects, the only unit which could probably have a chance to enter might be some paratroopers, that have drifted off...

von Marwitz
That's the VC hex, already occupied by a Death Star stack with a 10-3 SMC at scenario start.
 

bprobst

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And I'm sure there are questions about Bypass movement.
Bypass is probably easier than normal entry of the hex, because you only need to deal with the rules for one terrain type. Trail breaks are still an open question though.

I'm surprised that I can't find anything in Chapter B that specifically mentions what to do with Combination Terrain - I thought for sure there was at least a passing blurb about it?
What you're looking for is the last sentence in B.1.

There's also a reference to building-woods hexes in A4.31 (discussing Infantry bypass movement).

In general, the phrase "the terrain effects of both types are cumulative" is meant to be taken pretty literally. TEM? Woods is +1, Wooden Building is +2, so the TEM of a woods-(wooden) building hex is +3. MF cost? 2 (woods) + 2 (building) = 4 MF. Other effects can be calculated similarly.

The "general principle" (although not stated anywhere explicitly that I can think of) is that any combination of terrain types is treated this way, with the obvious EXC for "open ground", which is never cumulative. Hence, a building in an otherwise OG hex costs 2 MF to enter; a building in an Orchard hex costs 3 MF to enter (Q5.4, T4.31) -- even though the base cost for OG and Orchard are the same!

In the specific case of MP costs and Bog, they might be treated as separate rather than cumulative events. The rulebook principle I'm thinking of here is exiting/entering a woods-road hex via a non-road hexside. Before your vehicle can undertake such movement you need to spend MP and roll for Bog as if entering a regular woods hex. So you could argue that in the case of woods-building, you first expend MP and roll for Bog to enter the woods portion of the hex; and only after that is successful do you expend the MP and roll for Bog for the building portion of the hex. However that then begs the question of what happens if you Bog in the woods portion? You're not in VBM because your VCA must of necessity be pointed towards the centre of the hex. So perhaps the simple cumulative effect (one combined MP expenditure, one Bog DR with combined DRM) is more sensible.
 

DPetros

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Board 86 -
I like it for the most part
  • the strung out village. and hedges. Could work well for Normandy.
  • you can use each half independently of the other - good flexibility
But I'm not crazy about it for a few reasons:
  • Buildings that have no roads leading to them - that isn't realistic - how do you get to them - where is such terrain ?
  • the isolated Cemetery - why so far from town? Seems pretty isolated
Board 85 - (hey, while I'm at the well)
I like it also:
- nice small off-center village
- like 85, can use either board half independently

And like 85, not so crazy about it for these reasons:
  • What are all those Walls about in the S,T,U rows? Rows around Grainfields? I could see around Orchards.. hmm
  • Scattered copses of Woods - good for ASL hiding, but realistic? not sure here - sketchy
Both board Villages need more detail - walls, hedges (represent wood fencing), little grainfields, narrow streets, something..

Consider the source here - Anal retentive about geoboards-R-Me.
 
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