Would you play on mapboards that are unofficial?

Dr Zaius

Chief Defender of the Faith
Joined
May 1, 2001
Messages
8,902
Reaction score
408
Location
The Forbidden Zone
First name
Don
Country
llUnited States
Would you be willing to play VASL games using third party or user-created maps? Needless to say, most of these will never be printed on cardstock as actual mapboards.

For me the answer is a big yes. If the map is put together well and the scenario is high quality, why not? It wouldn't be any different than the computer maps that are generated for purely computer-based wargames like TOAW. In fact, i would like to see more custom VASL maps released. of course, we need quality scenarios for these boards as well.
 

Priest

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
Messages
2,132
Reaction score
2
Location
Denver, Colorado
It is interesting that you should say that Don, when I was on the Cabal the other night I heard something about the VASL people working on an Operation Chariot mod. As far as I know MMP is not working on a similar mod, so this would indicate a break from the need to have ASL to play VASL, if this is true.
 

Dr Zaius

Chief Defender of the Faith
Joined
May 1, 2001
Messages
8,902
Reaction score
408
Location
The Forbidden Zone
First name
Don
Country
llUnited States
Priest said:
It is interesting that you should say that Don, when I was on the Cabal the other night I heard something about the VASL people working on an Operation Chariot mod. As far as I know MMP is not working on a similar mod, so this would indicate a break from the need to have ASL to play VASL, if this is true.
Well, that's not exactly the case. You still need the ASLRB and a few of the basic modules in order to have a basic set of ASL material. Just because a specific scenario, map, or counters were not published by Avalon Hill/MultimanPublishing doesn't mean anything. There are plenty of mapboards and other ASL material created by third party developers.

Are you saying that if we were playing face-to-face we wouldn't be able to play on a homemade mapbaord using a homemade scenario? People do that all the time. What's the difference with VASL (as long as the players own the ASLRB)?

This brings up another point: when playing VASL do both players need to own (for example) the Yanks module if they are playing a scenario from it using VASL? I say no, only one player needs to own it. Again, if we are playing face to face we don't need to both own the same modules and everything. Why should we impose restrictions on VASL players that we don't impose on ourselves when playing face-to-face?
 

Priest

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
Messages
2,132
Reaction score
2
Location
Denver, Colorado
Posted by Don Maddox
---------------------------------------------------------------
This brings up another point: when playing VASL do both players need to own (for example) the Yanks module if they are playing a scenario from it using VASL? I say no, only one player needs to own it. Again, if we are playing face to face we don't need to both own the same modules and everything. Why should we impose restrictions on VASL players that we don't impose on ourselves when playing face-to-face?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Well when you are playing ftf both players are in the same location and have access to the same board(s) and counters. It isn't necessary that both players have a copy of the same board(s). However, when playing over the internet with VASL the two players are in different locations, both players need to have a copy of the same board(s) and counters. Let's take me as an example; I can't play any desert scenarios because I don't have WoA or Hollow Legions, how can I set up board(s) that I don't have or play with counters that I don't own? So when setting up a game I would have to specify a scenario that uses board(s) and counters that I do have. Unless, of course, that you don't need to own said boards or counters to play a desert scenario using VASL. The same thing would apply to HASL mods, everything will be fine as long as both players are in the same location, but, what do you do when one player is in Germany and the other player is in Colorado ? Operation Chariot would be a HASL mod and would require a speialized map, like Pegasus Bridge. Are you saying that it would be possible for both players to play the Pegasus Bridge mod if the player in Germany owned Pegasus Bridge and the player in Colorado didn't ? I was at a FRASL tournament a couple of years ago, they had problems with homemade scenarios because not everyone had the required boards and counters and this was a ftf tourny. I can foresee problems if homemade scenarios are used with VASL some would have to drop out of a tourney because they don't own the reqiured mods.
 
Last edited:

Dr Zaius

Chief Defender of the Faith
Joined
May 1, 2001
Messages
8,902
Reaction score
408
Location
The Forbidden Zone
First name
Don
Country
llUnited States
Well, if it's a historical module or something with a lot of special rules and extra material that came with the product then I guess that could be a problem. But if it's a small add-on or homemade scenario I can just email my opponent what he needs. They are working to enhace and "modularize" VASL so that custom unit counters and so on can be added the same way custom maps can be. This would mean it would be possible to create homemade historical modules with custom counters and all you would need to do is download the stuff.
 

Aries

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Messages
4,187
Reaction score
5
Location
Earth
Country
llCanada
Depends on the map. Electronically generated maps will sure look a dang sight better than the ones I have made with pencil crayons back years ago when bored heheh.
 

Dr Zaius

Chief Defender of the Faith
Joined
May 1, 2001
Messages
8,902
Reaction score
408
Location
The Forbidden Zone
First name
Don
Country
llUnited States
Basically what I was asking is if people would be willing to play on mapboards and scenarios that have been custom made for VASL. These third party efforts would probably never be available as mounted mapboards, but the scenarios could always be put into pdf format and look as good as the ones MMP does.

My personal opinion is that I hope to see a whole new ASL community spring up around VASL with new maps, counters, and quality scenarios. The fact that these might not be available on hardcopy isn't a big deal. You can put cardstock in your $99 injet printer and print scenarios just as good as the ones you buy. The only real concern would be that the third party scenarios that use custom maps or custom counters couldn't be played face-to-face. I'm not sure that's a big problem.

I will play custom scenarios that use custom counters and custom maps if they are good enough. Why not?
 

Aries

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2002
Messages
4,187
Reaction score
5
Location
Earth
Country
llCanada
Custom maps imply handmade scenarios as well.

Now true, everything does not always start out as "official" product.

But I will say this much, I much prefer to play games like ASL using well play tested materials.

Every DYO game I have ever played ended in about 2-3 turns when it became clear neither myself nor my buddy had clue one how to make good scenarios that didnt need prior testing hehe.
 

Priest

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
Messages
2,132
Reaction score
2
Location
Denver, Colorado
Well since VASL has proven that they are capable of producing top quality maps, then I would say yes I would play with them.
 

da priest

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2003
Messages
2,783
Reaction score
11
Location
Lebanon, Mo., turn r
A tad beyond the current discussion--have yoy seen the mounted HOB "hill" boards? They are great, but no-one but HOB designs scenarios for them. :hmmm:
 

Dr Zaius

Chief Defender of the Faith
Joined
May 1, 2001
Messages
8,902
Reaction score
408
Location
The Forbidden Zone
First name
Don
Country
llUnited States
I have seen pictures of them, but I don't own that particular module. I've heard people say these are very high quality mapboards. Are they geomorphic, or are these maps different than standard ASL maps?
 

da priest

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2003
Messages
2,783
Reaction score
11
Location
Lebanon, Mo., turn r
Don Maddox said:
I have seen pictures of them, but I don't own that particular module. I've heard people say these are very high quality mapboards. Are they geomorphic, or are these maps different than standard ASL maps?
2 boards:

each having: 2 short sides and 1 long side usual geo-morph. The other long side is "top o' the hill" and you can put them adjacent for one big momma hill.

Graphics and "feel" are MMP/AH map quality.
 

Chris Milne

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
675
Reaction score
3
Location
Letchworth, UK
Country
ll
da priest said:
2 boards:

each having: 2 short sides and 1 long side usual geo-morph. The other long side is "top o' the hill" and you can put them adjacent for one big momma hill.

Graphics and "feel" are MMP/AH map quality.
Don't own them, but I've heard positive feedback from others. I've also seen TPP playtest scenarios using them, so they may be spreading.

There are plenty of homegrown maps on Tom Repetti's page
http://www.mindspring.com/~tqr/trmaps/trmapsintro.html
and the odd scenario to go with them. Designed by Pete Shelling, so probably rather good...
 

Dr Zaius

Chief Defender of the Faith
Joined
May 1, 2001
Messages
8,902
Reaction score
408
Location
The Forbidden Zone
First name
Don
Country
llUnited States
Yes, I've seen the maps on that webpage and they look great. VASL opens up a whole new world of possibilities for someone with some spare time and computer skills.
 
Top