wire

[Futbol]

wondering why we could not redo wire rules making them like panjis in terms of covered hexsides instead of entire hexes

 

[jrv]

wondering why we could not redo wire rules making them like panjis in terms of covered hexsides instead of entire hexes

because players hate panji rules.

JR

 

[bprobst]

wondering why we could not redo wire rules making them like panjis in terms of covered hexsides instead of entire hexes

Who is "we"? Are you actually asking: why doesn't MMP rewrite the Wire rules to be completely different to the way they work now.

That would be a minor exercise, to be sure. Probably no more than a ten-minute job.

And it would satisfy the burning desires of ... how many players, exactly?

While we're "fixing" the wire rules, let's sort out some other priority requests too. E.G.: "please completely change the vehicle and movement combat rules so that they more accurately represent lateral vs. perpendicular relative movement and don't actually penalise fast vehicles for being fast." Couldn't possibly take more than a couple of paragraphs, I'm frankly astonished that it wasn't a rule in Chapter W.

 

[Hemaelstrom]

wondering why we could not redo wire rules making them like panjis in terms of covered hexsides instead of entire hexes

I tried, but a nasty gang of ASLers got wind of my endeavours then ambushed me in a back alley and beat me senseless with their Zimmer frames. Apparently not satisfied with the certain knowledge that my rules would never see the light of day and were intended only for personal use, or private moments in dark corners.

 

[Vinnie]

For hexside wire look to barbed wire fences in KGP and others. But what consenting players do in their own games is not up to me.

 

[Futbol]

Who is "we"? Are you actually asking: why doesn't MMP rewrite the Wire rules to be completely different to the way they work now.

That would be a minor exercise, to be sure. Probably no more than a ten-minute job.

And it would satisfy the burning desires of ... how many players, exactly?

While we're "fixing" the wire rules, let's sort out some other priority requests too. E.G.: "please completely change the vehicle and movement combat rules so that they more accurately represent lateral vs. perpendicular relative movement and don't actually penalise fast vehicles for being fast." Couldn't possibly take more than a couple of paragraphs, I'm frankly astonished that it wasn't a rule in Chapter W.

you always sound so very arrogant on your replies like a know it all sad......

 

[Robin Reeve]

Hexside barbed wire already exist in the system.
They are called Barbed Wire Fences and appeared 25 years ago in KGP (rule P3 paragraph).
Their tremendous success is known by everyone. ?

Now, I would plead that MMP made optional, streamlined Panji rules - making them similar to Wire -, because, as for now, Panjis share the same triumph as the Barbed Wire rules.

 

[von Marwitz]

Who is "we"? Are you actually asking: why doesn't MMP rewrite the Wire rules to be completely different to the way they work now.

Actually, if MMP would rewrite the Panji rules to make them more workable, it is the question if anyone really noticed that old things are gone? After all, who has read and played them before and didn't stop after a paragraph or two?

von Marwitz

 

[bprobst]

Personally I don't have any problems with the panji rules. They are verbose, but they are also complete.

I hate the barbed wire rules because they add nothing except irritation. They are not in any respect difficult, but there's an overwhelming feeling of "why do I have to put up with this?".

you always sound so very arrogant on your replies like a know it all sad......

So you don't have any answers to the questions I raised? That's even more sad.

 

[Sparafucil3]

Speaking of easy fixes:
B27.56: append after "A-T Trench."; "Vehicular Bypass of any hexside that is part of a hex containing an A-T Trench is not allowed."

One of MY pet peeves. -- jim

 

[Philippe D.]

Isn't that in the BFP rules for Crucible of Steel? Yeah, it sounds reasonable enough, of course.

 

[Sparafucil3]

Isn't that in the BFP rules for Crucible of Steel? Yeah, it sounds reasonable enough, of course.

I don't recall. They may have used the RB verbiage on Trenches connecting to neighboring terrain. I used the verbiage from the Wire rules and replaced "Wire" with "A-T Trench". I can't believe the intent of A-T Trenches in ASL was to allow the Attacker to bypass the canalizing obstacle so easily. Seems silly to me. -- jim

 

[Futbol]

I was thinking in terms of hexsides covered like panjis, same wire rules apply but at scenario start defender gets a number of "covered hexsides" if he wants to cover an entire hex thats ok. I'm basing this on the sheer effort it takes to lay enough wire to cover an entire 40 meter area, in 15 years of army service I never saw this much wire ever laid. Also I think it adds realism. I understand ASL is abstract in may areas but slightly modifying wire with this option seems more accurate.

 

[jrv]

I was thinking in terms of hexsides covered like panjis, same wire rules apply but at scenario start defender gets a number of "covered hexsides" if he wants to cover an entire hex thats ok. I'm basing this on the sheer effort it takes to lay enough wire to cover an entire 40 meter area, in 15 years of army service I never saw this much wire ever laid. Also I think it adds realism. I understand ASL is abstract in may areas but slightly modifying wire with this option seems more accurate.

The abstraction of ASL doesn't mean that a hex with a wire counter has wire on every square metre of 1200 m². A wire counter means the hex has enough wire to be annoying. Increasing "accuracy" trades off against "interesting" playing time. You could describe every strand of the wire and every post when laying it out, then every advantage that the attacker had (wire cutter, scouting time, etc). With the right "accuracy" you could play an entire eight-hour game just trying to move through one wire hex. To my way of thinking accuracy does not increase enjoyment of the game past a certain point (i.e. you have to be a bit more accurate than Risk). The current wire rules work not because they are accurate but because they convey the general idea (wire is annoying) while not taking too much away from interesting playing time.

JR

 

[Sparafucil3]

I was thinking in terms of hexsides covered like panjis, same wire rules apply but at scenario start defender gets a number of "covered hexsides" if he wants to cover an entire hex thats ok. I'm basing this on the sheer effort it takes to lay enough wire to cover an entire 40 meter area, in 15 years of army service I never saw this much wire ever laid. Also I think it adds realism. I understand ASL is abstract in may areas but slightly modifying wire with this option seems more accurate.

To do something similar to Panji's, the counter density either increases or the number of Panji counter types has to increase. Recall that Panji counters look like HD counters and can cover from 1 - 3 hexsides. Laying a line of them would require a healthy mix of 2- and 3-hexside counters to cover any length of ground. I have played Panji scenarios where the counter mix wasn't there so you end up with multiple Panji counters in the same hex, you have to keep them all properly oriented, etc. It is one of the few things in ASL (HIP being another) which I think is FAR easier on VASL. -- jim