Why the ASL hate?

[Sampato]

For the rules complexity, some people refuse to believe that a system developed decades ago can still be viable in the modern board game market, much less that the complexity is a feature and not a bug; a bug that has clearly been "solved" by the more streamlined and easier to understand rules of other WWII squad wargames.

On the complexity as a feature, that really resonated with me when I originally got into ASL. I found that, at least for me personally, a system which does too much streamlining just... I don't know how to put it, it's kind of like there's less game in my game, if that makes any sense?

 

[zgrose]

SFB is also one of those old school "account for everything" games. What I believe it lacks, compared to ASL, are solid/playable/fun scenarios.

 

[Turuk]

…if that makes any sense?

Absolutely. I have had fun playing all types/levels of board games, and they all scratch a different itch, but nothing (for me) equals the delightful brain-burning crunch of ASL.

 

[Hutch]

Because we are having fun, and they ain’t…

 

[Actionjick]

I was thinking some more on this. War is man arguably at his worst. For those of us educated in Western thinking, we are taught violence is not the answer, turn the other cheek, and all of those things (sorry, I am not well versed in eastern teachings). You can ignore this type of thinking when you're playing some grand-tactical level game, moving divisions, corps, and armies across the board. Sure, in your heart, you know what combat losses are but at that scale, its akin to Stalin's purported "The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic." Those grand tactical games are "statistical" games. ASL is much more visceral. You can track right down to the single man, laying in the mud, moving across the battlefield, struggling to stay alive. ASL is way closer to the "tragedy" than any other game I know. In that light, I wonder if it is not us who are unreasonable for our devotion to this game. -- jim

Very nice Sir!

 

[Actionjick]

IRL I am a non-violent/turn the other cheek anabaptist - btw Christian faith comes from the Near East, so it can be argued that it is an Eastern religion.
If ASL were reality to me, I woulld not play it.
When I became a Christian, I stopped wargaming for several months, to evaluate if there was a tension or contradiction between that hobby and my deepest beliefs.
I came to the conclusion that wargaming develops much less violence than, say, playing a competitive sport.
ASL is a fantasy world to me - about as much as a dungeon crawler.

If people identify their wargaming with participitating in the demonic horror of a real war (there is no "clean" war: there always shall be dark powers unleashed, that escape control of good-intended people), they should stop and find a hobby that doesn't awake the fear or other negative feelings in them.

Amen brother.

 

[Actionjick]

Nice thread!

 

[wrongway149]

For the monetary investment, people feel that it's a built-in model that requires players to buy more content to play more. There are numerous niches within gaming (WH40K, MTG, etc.) that have an absurdly high cost to enter and/or keep up with the releases,

My wife used to 'ask questions' about the cost of ASL. Then she found out how much miniatures and Magic costs. Now she is glad I don't do that.

Plus I always show her my MMP paychecks.

 

[wrongway149]

Absolutely. I have had fun playing all types/levels of board games, and they all scratch a different itch, but nothing (for me) equals the delightful brain-burning crunch of ASL.

I don't know any other wargame that has spawned so many side creative endeavors. TPP HASLS, scenario design, map designers, dice towers, on and on. Something for everyone!

 

[Actionjick]

My wife used to 'ask questions' about the cost of ASL. Then she found out how much miniatures and Magic costs. Now she is glad I don't do that.

Plus I always show her my MMP paychecks.

You are a wise man.

 

[Sparafucil3]

My wife used to 'ask questions' about the cost of ASL. Then she found out how much miniatures and Magic costs. Now she is glad I don't do that.

Plus I always show her my MMP paychecks.

I always price my ASL content in a dollar/hours of entertainment. Works out to about 2¢. -- jim

 

[Actionjick]

ASL is a niche market. Those who hate ASL are a subset of that niche market. That's not a lot to be concerned about.

Still a very interesting and thought provoking thread.

 

[fenyan]

You've got to be socially maladjusted to spew hate at a nerdy game.

In regards to the expense angle: Even compared to other games it's not expensive. Eurogamers collect dozens of boardgames. Minatures gamers spends hundreds on figures and paint. Card gamers spend hundreds on booster packs. Computer games spend on subscriptions. The list goes on and on.

I've had to take a hiatus from ASL due to changes at work. As a result, I've been spending more on other hobbies. When I had more time for ASL, I spent a lot of time obsessing over rules, looking at scenarios, organizing my counters, etc etc and spent less money.

 

[Stewart]

Because we are having fun, and they ain’t…

We have $2000 worth of a game that is played and loved by many.
They have $20,000+ piles of plastic.

We have scenarios that we will never get to play.
They have figures they will never get to paint.

 

[von Marwitz]

Gonna have to disagree that it’s the most complicated or most expensive game…
It is certainly complex, and if you buy things just to have them, it’s expensive, but I’m not sure you guys have been looking at other games in the modern market…

One box of Warhammer 40K in its SK version is nearly $200 and gets you far less stuff.

Games Workshop with Warhammer ranks as the most notorious company to shamelessly rip off its customers that I know.

Frequent changes of rules versions that turn previous ones obsolete - along with their plastic armies. Add to that outrageous ridiculous prices for plastic miniatures which cost a couple of cents to produce.

Meh. I have always stayed clear of it.

von Marwitz

 

[von Marwitz]

Plus I always show her my MMP paychecks.

Now, that's the most uncanny cunning I have ever witnessed to win over the long haired general!

My sincerest respect, soldier!

von Marwitz

 

[Ric of The LBC]

My wife used to 'ask questions' about the cost of ASL. Then she found out how much miniatures and Magic costs. Now she is glad I don't do that.

Plus I always show her my MMP paychecks.

cheaper than hookers and blow

 

[trailrunner]

My wife used to 'ask questions' about the cost of ASL. Then she found out how much miniatures and Magic costs. Now she is glad I don't do that.

Compared to my bicycles and tennis clinics, ASL is a cheap hobby.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

My other hobby is to pick up £2 books from charity stores. I really don’t have another expensive hobby to compare ASL to.

Then again I always believe that if something doesn’t irk somebody, it’s not a great success. ASL’s success is certainly not ignorable.

 

[kcole4001]

cheaper than hookers and blow

Compared to my bicycles and tennis clinics, ASL is a cheap hobby.

ASL is also much cheaper than golf, motorcycles, boats, RVs, restoring old cars, and the storage/garage space to accommodate those thing....jeez, just think what we could do with all that extra space....
I have WAY more money into music gear than ASL.