Why the 1911?

Brian W

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Why do elderly males go all gooey in the vag about the browning 1911? Sure in 1918 it was a good battlefield gun. And then someone invented hollow points and the 1911 became dated. 100 years later and every gun maker and car maker in the world makes a copy to sell to rich old fogeys in the USA, and most of them still need work to get to run correctly, not unlike their owners. And then, they put them in the safe and they sit until the go into probate.

The old folks in 1970s went nuts over replacing them with M9s, a superior firearm, and the complaints still kept coming. Now, M9s are being replaced by Sig 320s and the same old fogeys that hated the M9s are now complaining about the Sig 320s.

Old fogeys are never satisfied.
 

Dr Zaius

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With guitars I like old.

With guns I like new.

With women I prefer somewhere in the middle.
 

witchbottles

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Having carried both the M1911A1, the S&W M36 and the Beretta M9 series pistols as service-issue sidearms during wartime conditions - I'll trust my life to the IMI Baby Eagle tucked into the left breast pocket of my flight gear, with a bag of 25 more JHP rounds, thank you very much.

I did learn that of the three issued service sidearms, the M36 had the best reliability for firing at least 4 well-aimed rounds out to 7 yards. The M1911A1 was both more destructive and more reliable in function and shot placement than the M9 series out to 25 yards, far more destructive if any hit was achieved at 50 yards. (to both human tissue and inanimate objects). But 50 yards is a real stretch for handgun engagement ranges.
 

witchbottles

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SiG's weapons are decent firearms, and did better in the Joint Armed Forces testing than the 2nd place M9 series, which were chosen finally due to cost, not competitive performance.
 

Tim Niesen

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A few years ago, my good friend Don Carlucci bought a BAR from the Cincinatti factory which still produces and sells them. They cost $4,300. He loves shooting it. There is only one military enity in the world which still uses them. In fact, they may be in use right now, but it seems unlikely due to the nature of the current war. Tim
 

witchbottles

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hollow point revolver caliber bullets were invented some 25+ years BEFORE the Colt 1911. JHPs were invented well before the US entry into WW1 and were exceedingly common in all handgun calibers (including .45 ACP), by December 1941. Hollow points are banned by the Hague Conventions of 1899, so they do not regularly show up in military arsenals ( Us balking at signing such accords on a historical record, notwithstanding.)

So the argument that the 9mmP is somehow "better" than the 1911 because the 1911 lost its ability to top the scale in actual shootings simply due to hollow points is quite inaccurate.

I'd trust a Kimber .45 hideaway, or a Colt Commander, long before I'd trust an M9 (or its civilian version the Beretta 92 series). Both are equally capable of taking modern JHPs such as Winchesters PDX-1 bullets (the modernized version of the so controversial "Black Talon").


The Browning BAR's of today available on the civilian market share a common action and chamber design, along with the modified blowback operation, of the original military versions, but very little else. The rifles have been modernized to make them quite accurate, well scoped, and in a variety of calibers, for long range big game hunting (known as SLRs). a few original M1918A2 copies are still available to civilians with proper FFL licenses, and come up for sale from time to time - these date from 1921 -1940 or from 1954-1960. There is one manufacturer with a license to build semi-auto only replicas of them, but they have not as yet availed themselves to use that license.
 

Tim Niesen

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The answer is that the Turkish Marines are still armed with the BAR. Interesting. Not sure if they ever enter the current combat in Syria, however.
 
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